Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Post Reply
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by SarathW »

Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Interesting video.
They still have an ancestor record of all descendants of confusious!
They have engraved his teaching in some 180 stone tablets.
They also do animal sacrifices. Is this still happening?
Company in China pay's a pension for the parents of their workers!
This is the first time I heard this sort of a system. Not a bad idea to look after old people.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 8150
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Depends on the Confucianism. There used to be large "Confucian" ceremonies of bull sacrifice at the Temple of Heaven. Confucianism is about the status quo as much as it is about nobility, and I mean "nobility" in a moral sense, not a monarchist one (though Confucius himself was an ardent monarchist, despite his belief that monarchs may lose their Heaven-sent mandate to rule). Confucius did not set up a religious system, because he presumes adherence to already-existing religious frameworks like the Rites of Zhou and traditional family piety.

This is how Confucianism can become "Buddhist" via syncretism. Confucianism is about how to be a gentleman and a scholar, both materially and spiritually. Being a "gentleman" can be framed as supporting the sangha and being a good Buddhist. This is how Confucianism and Buddhism mix (or don't mix!) in East Asia.

When they don't mix, Confucians accuse Buddhism of destabizing society by breaking up families when renunciants leave the world for the holy life.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Master Hua describes the ideal society of Confucius:

http://www.cttbusa.org/other/greatunity.htm
When the Great Way prevails, every person is a part of society, and society belongs to everyone. The virtuous and the able are chosen for public office. Trustworthiness and friendliness are valued by all. People not only love their own parents and children, but love the parents and children of others as well. The elderly live their last years in happiness; able-bodied adults are usefully employed; children are reared properly. Widowers, widows, orphans, the childless aged, the handicapped and the ailing are well cared for.

All men share their social responsibilities, and all women have their respective roles. Natural resources and commodities are not wasted or appropriated for selfish ends. People want to contribute their strength and ability to the society for public good, not for private gain. Deception and cheating cannot occur in such a society. Robbery, larceny, rebellions, and other crimes all disappear. Gates and doors are not locked; no one even thinks of stealing. This is a world where harmony, equality, and justice prevail.

When the Great Way prevails. The Great Way is the law that everyone upholds and abides by. This great, bright path is not private; you can walk on it and so can I. You cultivate your own great, bright path; I cultivate my own. This broad, bright, and smooth path leads straight to a world where universal harmony, equality, and justice are realized.

Every person is a part of society, and society belongs to everyone. If people don't fight, seek, pursue personal advantage, or lie, and aren't selfish or greedy, then naturally they will become just and impartial. In that case, every person will be a part of a society that belongs to everyone. That was the kind of democracy advocated by Confucius. He wanted to restore the policy of giving the throne to the able, which had been practiced by Emperors Yao and Shun.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by Zenny »

Confucious was an exceptional teacher and spiritual man. His tool was meditation upon everyday life,and practical progressive wisdom.
For sure,those in power mixed up his teachings for worldly gain and authority and power.
If you read the analects of Confucious you can get the gist of what this great sage was pointing to.
Influences of confucianism,buddhism and taoism helped to direct to the original true message of siddhartha,Zen...Though this too has been institutionalised and corrupted.
Everyday Meditation is the true teaching of all great teachers.
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by DooDoot »

the Taoists (Chuang Tsu Inner Chapters) make fun of Confucius for his worldliness
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Eric Hutton's Introduction to his Xunzi translation says, in part:
Without a doubt, the Xunzi is one of the most philosophically interesting and sophisticated texts in the Confucian tradition. It covers a wide variety of topics—education, ritual, music, language, psychology, history, religion, ethics, politics, and warfare, to name just a few— and it provides quite thoughtful treatments of all these subjects. Indeed, despite being a very old text, many of its insights still ring true in the present. It is thus a text that amply rewards study, and not only for those seeking to understand ancient Chinese views in particular, but also for anyone reflecting on these important aspects of human life in general. [...] Our received text was first compiled by Liu Xiang (77–6 BCE).

Although the Xunzi is a very rich text, study of the Xunzi was relatively neglected for many centuries in China, due in large part to the greater popularity of another early Confucian text with rival ideas, the Mencius (also called the Mengzi). As a result, the Xunzi was initially also rather neglected by many Western students of Chinese thought. Fortunately, this situation is slowly being rectified, and study of the Xunzi has begun to flourish again both inside and outside China in recent years.
Master Xun lived 2 or 3 hundred years after Confucius.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Hutton continues:
A very concise summary of their ideas might be given as follows. These ru [cultivated persons] thinkers
believed that what the ancient sages and sage kings practiced and taught—and hence what
they themselves likewise practiced and taught—was the Way (dao 道), that is, the proper
way to live and to organize society. They believed that knowledge of the Way was
preserved in certain “classic” texts, which they accordingly treated as revered objects of
study. In turn, to live according to this Way required practicing certain rituals (li 禮) and
exercising certain virtues. The most important of these virtues are ren 仁, which includes
caring for others as a central element, and yi 義, which involves a devotion to what is
right. On their view, in embodying the Way to the highest degree, one becomes a
gentleman (junzi 君子) or even a sage. Furthermore, they believed that such cultivated
people possess a kind of moral charisma (de 德, translated in this volume as “virtue”) that
makes others friendly and supportive to them. The combination of these factors, the ru
thought, explained why the ancient sage kings were able to be great leaders who brought
peace and prosperity to the whole world, and hence these thinkers hoped to put an end to
the chaos and suffering of the Warring States era by practicing moral cultivation and by
getting others, especially rulers, to cultivate themselves.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Is Confucianism just an ethical system?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Hutton's version has 32 chapters or sections.
CHAPTER 1
An Exhortation to Learning

The gentleman says: Learning must never stop. Blue dye derives from the indigo plant, and
yet it is bluer than the plant. Ice comes from water, and yet it is colder than water. Through
steaming and bending, you can make wood as straight as an ink-line1 into a wheel. And
after its curve conforms to the compass, even when parched under the sun it will not
become straight again, because the steaming and bending have made it a certain way.
Likewise, when wood comes under the ink-line, it becomes straight, and when metal is
brought to the whetstone, it becomes sharp. The gentleman learns broadly and examines
himself thrice daily, and then his knowledge is clear and his conduct is without fault.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Post Reply