Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Aloka
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by Aloka »

form wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm I read from somewhere that one can become crazy or mentally disturbed if they see their past lives when they are not ready.
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DNS
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

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Aloka wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:46 pm
form wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm I read from somewhere that one can become crazy or mentally disturbed if they see their past lives when they are not ready.
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Speaking of Trump, Ingersoll Lockwood was an attorney and author who was born in New York and died in New York in 1918 -- that's right 1918 during the Spanish Flu, the last major pandemic when everyone wore masks outside. In year 2020 Trump is president during the current pandemic.

He wrote some novels known as the Baron Trump novels. It was the story of the last American president, who was from New York. Baron Trump is the name of Donald Trump's son. In the novel there was a cabinet member named Pence (current Vice President). The similarities continue beyond this.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest ... a-election

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Trump_novels
Looks kind of like a younger version of Trump. Note the 'Buddha' image on the robe. Books were written in 1880s referring to a 'last' U.S. president, story beginning in Russia then New York City.
In July 2017, the books were rediscovered by Internet forum users, and then the media, who amused themselves by highlighting perceived similarities between the protagonist and U.S. President Donald Trump, whose son is named Barron Trump.[1] Jaime Fuller wrote in Politico that Baron Trump is "precocious, restless, and prone to get in trouble", often mentions his massive brain, and has a personalized insult for most people he meets.[1] Chris Riotta noted in Newsweek that Baron Trump's adventures begin in Russia. Riotta also mentioned another book of Ingersoll's, 1900; or, The Last President, in which New York City is riven by protests following the shock victory of a populist candidate in the 1896 presidential election who brings on the downfall of the American republic.[3][4]

As of July 2017, filmmaker and Trump supporter Leigh Scott was reported to plan a crowdsourcing campaign to produce a feature film adaptation of the Baron Trump novels.[3]
Snopes fact check: 'Mostly true' :o :lol:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/baron ... d-journey/

Maybe Donald Trump is the rebirth of Ingersoll Lockwood? Others have speculated that Trump is a time traveler. :o :tongue:
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DNS
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by DNS »

Aloka wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:56 am .

"Some Problems with Believing in Rebirth." by Jayarava:

Excerpt:
....
So one of the main problems for anyone who believes in rebirth in the 21st century is
explaining how memories of past lives can possibly be preserved outside the healthy living
brain. How are they preserved? Where they are preserved? And how do we regain access to
them through psychic powers?
Jayavara is assuming materialism or physicalism is the only thing true. If there is nothing but physical material and our form and when we die, everything about us is only in the brain and when that dies, we completely die, then yes, it would be correct to say there is no rebirth, no afterlife. However, the Buddha was not a materialist and rejected materialism and nihilism.

There are plenty of valid arguments from philosophers and neuroscientists rejecting materialism as an explanation for consciousness, one of my favorite being the philosophical zombie.
form
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by form »

DNS wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:17 pm
Aloka wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:56 am .

"Some Problems with Believing in Rebirth." by Jayarava:

Excerpt:
....
So one of the main problems for anyone who believes in rebirth in the 21st century is
explaining how memories of past lives can possibly be preserved outside the healthy living
brain. How are they preserved? Where they are preserved? And how do we regain access to
them through psychic powers?
Jayavara is assuming materialism or physicalism is the only thing true. If there is nothing but physical material and our form and when we die, everything about us is only in the brain and when that dies, we completely die, then yes, it would be correct to say there is no rebirth, no afterlife. However, the Buddha was not a materialist and rejected materialism and nihilism.

There are plenty of valid arguments from philosophers and neuroscientists rejecting materialism as an explanation for consciousness, one of my favorite being the philosophical zombie.
This material only theory confirmed is wrong.
form
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by form »

I told a monk most people dun believe in 4NT because they can't handle the truth and he thinks that is quite funny.
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DooDoot
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by DooDoot »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:06 pm You get them everywhere. “Imagine no religion” If only we could have a rationalist and non-religious society...
You saying Christians & Muslims who believed in heaven & hell, let alone Jews who believe in God, didn't kill lots of people and steal lots of land & resources? Oh, was Genghis Khan, per Wikipedia, really a "Tibetan Buddhist"? Oh... but you appear to be declaring a doctrine of non-rationality like St Paul did therefore your view is OK despite is apparent illogicalness. :roll:
form wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:46 am I told a monk most people dun believe in 4NT because they can't handle the truth and he thinks that is quite funny.
Since the 4NTs appear unrelated to "rebirth", it appears it is the above funny monk that can't handle the truth. Where do the 4NTs refer to "rebirth"? :shrug:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

how to stop suffering from the memories of all those past lives? moments of pleasure in a sea of misery. countless heads chopped off, guts ripped open. painful birth upon birth. loves lost. wealth piled up and stolen, lost. tears cried. children dying. rape. abuse. hunger. illness. seemingly endless misery, except, in deed, there is a way out of the suffering, a path as taught by The Noble Ones, available here and now.
form
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by form »

DooDoot wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:51 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:06 pm You get them everywhere. “Imagine no religion” If only we could have a rationalist and non-religious society...
You saying Christians & Muslims who believed in heaven & hell, let alone Jews who believe in God, didn't kill lots of people and steal lots of land & resources? Oh, was Genghis Khan, per Wikipedia, really a "Tibetan Buddhist"? Oh... but you appear to be declaring a doctrine of non-rationality like St Paul did therefore your view is OK despite is apparent illogicalness. :roll:
form wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:46 am I told a monk most people dun believe in 4NT because they can't handle the truth and he thinks that is quite funny.
Since the 4NTs appear unrelated to "rebirth", it appears it is the above funny monk that can't handle the truth. Where do the 4NTs refer to "rebirth"? :shrug:
Nothing to do with rebirth. It is about facing reality in this instance. It is meant to be a semi joke. That monk friend has a sense of humour.
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Re:

Post by form »

sunnat wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:12 am how to stop suffering from the memories of all those past lives? moments of pleasure in a sea of misery. countless heads chopped off, guts ripped open. painful birth upon birth. loves lost. wealth piled up and stolen, lost. tears cried. children dying. rape. abuse. hunger. illness. seemingly endless misery, except, in deed, there is a way out of the suffering, a path as taught by The Noble Ones, available here and now.
That is why full and genuine past lives knowledge only revealed themselves when one is ready mentally.
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Mr Man
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by Mr Man »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:43 pm
Mr Man wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:42 pm
form wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:15 am Could it be due to psychological protective mechanism? Cos we can't handle the truth?
I think it's because we don't properly understand rebirth.
What do you mean?
Well understanding of rebirth was part of the Buddha's awakening. An awakening that we have not had.

The tools for understanding rebirth are not at our disposal.
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by SteRo »

form wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:15 am Could it be due to psychological protective mechanism? Cos we can't handle the truth?
It might also be that there are none at all or none that are "ours".
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
form
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by form »

Mr Man wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:56 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:43 pm
Mr Man wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:42 pm

I think it's because we don't properly understand rebirth.
What do you mean?
Well understanding of rebirth was part of the Buddha's awakening. An awakening that we have not had.

The tools for understanding rebirth are not at our disposal.
U have a point there. What will help us may also hinder us.
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Mr Man
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by Mr Man »

SteRo wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:35 am
form wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:15 am Could it be due to psychological protective mechanism? Cos we can't handle the truth?
It might also be that there are none.
Occam's razor?
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Aloka
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by Aloka »

DNS wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:17 pm
Aloka wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:56 am .

"Some Problems with Believing in Rebirth." by Jayarava:

Excerpt:
....
So one of the main problems for anyone who believes in rebirth in the 21st century is
explaining how memories of past lives can possibly be preserved outside the healthy living
brain. How are they preserved? Where they are preserved? And how do we regain access to
them through psychic powers?
Jayavara is assuming materialism or physicalism is the only thing true. If there is nothing but physical material and our form and when we die, everything about us is only in the brain and when that dies, we completely die, then yes, it would be correct to say there is no rebirth, no afterlife. However, the Buddha was not a materialist and rejected materialism and nihilism.

There are plenty of valid arguments from philosophers and neuroscientists rejecting materialism as an explanation for consciousness, one of my favorite being the philosophical zombie.
Other people's opinions and arguments and many years of involvement with Vajrayana and then Theravada, talking to teachers, listening to talks, and reading various books and texts, doesn't actually change the fact that I remain neutral/agnostic about reincarnation and rebirth myself. Plus life continues on planet earth, whatever we all choose to believe.

All the best to everyone , - and may all sentient beings have good health, happiness, and peace.

:anjali:
SteRo
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Re: Why we cannot remember our past lives?

Post by SteRo »

DNS wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:17 pm However, the Buddha was not a materialist and rejected materialism and nihilism.
If I remember correctly there is a sutta where Gautoma teaches that it would be better to identify self with materiality than with mentality. So he might be considered to be a relative materialist.
Anyone knows the name of the sutta?
DNS wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:17 pm There are plenty of valid arguments from philosophers and neuroscientists rejecting materialism as an explanation for consciousness, ...
Sorry but that might be wishful thinking. There are certainly religious people even among physicists and neuroscientist, let alone philosophers, but to assert that there are "valid arguments rejecting materialism as an explanation for consciousness" is a bit far fetched.

DNS wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:17 pm ... one of my favorite being the philosophical zombie.
which since it is a "thought experiment" is not based on science. I think that the explanation of the source of what is known as "consciousness" certainly will be provided by physics in future since advanced physics actually goes beyond naive concepts of "matter" which also are the basis of naive matter/mind dualisms.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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