Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Post Reply
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

chownah wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:16 pm

I don't think that I have expressed the view that I think that the contest team has not taken steps to prevent fraud. Please show me where I said this.....or admit that I have not said this.....


I don't think that I have expressed the view that I think that the theme of life after death will attract only people who want to fraud the contest. Please show me where I have said this or admit that I have not said this......


chownah
chownah wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:05 am Do people think that offering such big money will encourage some people to make stuff up in order to get some cash? Could the big money be turning this contest into a creative writing contest?
chownah
:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
chownah
Posts: 9336
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by chownah »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:03 pm
chownah wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:16 pm

I don't think that I have expressed the view that I think that the contest team has not taken steps to prevent fraud. Please show me where I said this.....or admit that I have not said this.....


I don't think that I have expressed the view that I think that the theme of life after death will attract only people who want to fraud the contest. Please show me where I have said this or admit that I have not said this......


chownah
chownah wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:05 am Do people think that offering such big money will encourage some people to make stuff up in order to get some cash? Could the big money be turning this contest into a creative writing contest?
chownah
:namaste:
You accused me with "You are naive to think that the contest team has not taken steps to prevent fraud." I have not said this anywhere that I know of and I definitley did not say this in the quote you bring above. Please show me where I said this.....or admit that I have not said this.....

You accused me with "You are also prejudiced because you think that the theme of life after death will attract only people who want to Fraud the Contest." I have not said this anywhere that I know of and I definitely did not say this in the quote you bring above. Please show me where I said this.....or admit that I have not said this...

...and....as to the quote yoiu bring above.....I repeat both of the QUESTIONS here:
Do people think that offering such big money will encourage some people to make stuff up in order to get some cash? Could the big money be turning this contest into a creative writing contest?
chownah
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by SteRo »

Modus.Ponens wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:53 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:13 pm
Lucas Oliveira wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:58 pm
Now isn't that "hard evidence" that "BICS" has completely transcended any sense of reality. :rofl:
This kind of research is ...
BICS obviously is an enemy of science and you are violating the term "research".
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by Modus.Ponens »

SteRo wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:46 pm
Modus.Ponens wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:53 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:13 pm

Now isn't that "hard evidence" that "BICS" has completely transcended any sense of reality. :rofl:
This kind of research is ...
BICS obviously is an enemy of science and you are violating the term "research".
Well, I am not violating anything. SETI is valid research. The scientific search for non material phenomena is valid.

As for BICS, I don't know. I find this interesting.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by SteRo »

Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:06 pm
SteRo wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:46 pm
Modus.Ponens wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:53 pm

This kind of research is ...
BICS obviously is an enemy of science and you are violating the term "research".
Well, I am not violating anything. SETI is valid research.
This thread is not about SETI.
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:06 pm The scientific search for non material phenomena is valid.
It would be valid if - and only if - there is a scientific hypothesis based on validated scientific facts that there are nonmaterial phenomena. But since there is no such hypothesis there cannot be scientific research for non material phenomena. There can be research for non material phenomena but such research isn't scientific research.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by Modus.Ponens »

SteRo wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:18 pm
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:06 pm
SteRo wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:46 pm
BICS obviously is an enemy of science and you are violating the term "research".
Well, I am not violating anything. SETI is valid research.
This thread is not about SETI.
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:06 pm The scientific search for non material phenomena is valid.
It would be valid if - and only if - there is a scientific hypothesis based on validated scientific facts that there are nonmaterial phenomena. But since there is no such hypothesis there cannot be scientific research for non material phenomena. There can be research for non material phenomena but such research isn't scientific research.
This thread isn't about SETI, but SETI is as valid a research project as is the search for non material phenomena. And you can do scientific research on things not based on "a scientific hypothesis based on validated scientific facts". The scientific research on acupuncture is an example.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by SteRo »

Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 pm This thread isn't about SETI, but SETI is as valid a research project as is the search for non material phenomena.
No. Since there is scientific knowledge about intraterrestrial intelligence SETI is a scientific research project But there is no scientific knowledge that might provide the basis for reasearch for non material phenomena.
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 pm And you can do scientific research on things not based on "a scientific hypothesis based on validated scientific facts".
No, it is not that any research would be scientific research.
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 pm The scientific research on acupuncture is an example.
Nonsense. First the research project on acupuncture has to be defined before it may be specified as scientific or non-scientific.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by Modus.Ponens »

SteRo wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:47 pm
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 pm This thread isn't about SETI, but SETI is as valid a research project as is the search for non material phenomena.
No. Since there is scientific knowledge about intraterrestrial intelligence SETI is a scientific research project But there is no scientific knowledge that might provide the basis for reasearch for non material phenomena.
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 pm And you can do scientific research on things not based on "a scientific hypothesis based on validated scientific facts".
No, it is not that any research would be scientific research.
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 pm The scientific research on acupuncture is an example.
Nonsense. First the research project on acupuncture has to be defined before it may be specified as scientific or non-scientific.
Obviously not every study of acupuncture is scientific. But every study of acupuncture that follows the scientific method is scientific.

Here's another example:
Emily Rosa (born February 6, 1987) is the youngest person to have a research paper published in a peer reviewed medical journal. At age nine Rosa conceived and executed a scientific study of therapeutic touch which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1998.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Rosa

So, yes, you can do scientific research on paranormal stuff. Negative results are still results. You may think nothing will come out of this kind of research and it's a waste of money. That's fine. But you cannot invalidate the field of study itself.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
chownah
Posts: 9336
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by chownah »

Whether an investigation is science or not might be determined by considering whether the scientific method is being applied or not. Here is a list of the steps for the scientific method I found on the internet....I think it is a simple presentation of the basics of the scientific method but I am not saying that this list is definitive....I do think it can be helpful to consider it:
Steps in the Scientific Method
1 - Make an Observation. You can't study what you don't know is there. ...
2 - Ask a Question. ...
3 - Do Background Research. ...
4 - Form a Hypothesis . ...
5 - Conduct an Experiment . ...
6 - Analyze Results and Draw a Conclusion . ...
7 - Report Your Results.
For investigation into the idea of an afterlife (as it is usually/often presented) usually contains people's people's reports of experiences they have had in different circumstances (for example: near death reports) and/or people's unexplained knowledge of things one would not expect them to have.......these are the observations in item 1.

For item 2 the investigator might ask the question: Are these reports indicating the existence of an afterlife?

Item 3 is somewhat difficult for the investigator since there is no existing body of knowledge specifically about the afterlife so maybe reading what various religions have said about it could be part of item 3....or even looking for more reports of other-worldly experiences or unexplained knowledge could be found.

Forming a hypothesis (Item 4) seems to be happening with the investigators in that they have the hypothesis that these experiences and unexpected knowledge happen through rebirth or afterlife......the PROBLEM here is that a hypothesis is supposed to be "falsifieable".....that means that it must be possible for the hypothesis to be proven wrong. The investigator must be able to think ahead to item 5 and be able to create an experiment which has the ability to somewhat strongly indicate that the hypothesis is correct or that it is false......I don't think that the hypothesis that the afterlife investigators have formulated is falsefiable....so their hypothesis would not be considered to be scientific....

Item 5 is to conduct an experiment which is designed so that the outcome of the experiment will either support the hyposthesis that the existence of an afterlife is the reason for the experiences and unexpected knowledge OR that it does not support that hypothesis.......I don't see how it is even possible to do this in any way at all (it is beyond range in my view) and I have never seen any attempt at this by the investigators. To be scientific there must be an experiment conducted to "test" the hypothesis.....lacking this an endeavor is lacking what is necessary for the scientific method and any conclusions drawn without this experimentation does not qualify as being scientific. (Side note: Additionally if I can come up with some other hypothesis for the phenomena which is completely unconnected with afterlife and in convlict with afterlife then there must be a way to falsify my hypothesis.....you can't have two mutually exclusive hypothoses accepted...it is one or the other....)

Items 6 and 7 can not occur unless a falsifiable hypothesis has been formulated and an experiment has been designed which can test that hypothesis......again I don't see how this can even in theory be done with respect to afterlife.

All of this does not mean that afterlife does not exist.....it only shows that it can be be substantiated through what usually passes as being "science".
chownah
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by SteRo »

Modus.Ponens wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:02 am So, yes, you can do scientific research on paranormal stuff.
Of cours you can't. You are merely trying to establish non-science as science and with that you are following the path shared by all irrationalists in modern age which is the age of science.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 am
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:02 am So, yes, you can do scientific research on paranormal stuff.
Of cours you can't. You are merely trying to establish non-science as science and with that you are following the path shared by all irrationalists in modern age which is the age of science.
when buddha spoke of afterlife, I think he spoke from what he observed which means its a fact
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:59 am
SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 am
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:02 am So, yes, you can do scientific research on paranormal stuff.
Of cours you can't. You are merely trying to establish non-science as science and with that you are following the path shared by all irrationalists in modern age which is the age of science.
when buddha spoke of afterlife, I think he spoke from what he observed which means its a fact
:roll:
The only ones speaking here is confusedlayman and other users.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by Modus.Ponens »

SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 am
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:02 am So, yes, you can do scientific research on paranormal stuff.
Of cours you can't. You are merely trying to establish non-science as science and with that you are following the path shared by all irrationalists in modern age which is the age of science.
I've already proven you can. You can only take a horse to the water but you can't make it drink it.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by SteRo »

Modus.Ponens wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:10 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 am
Modus.Ponens wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:02 am So, yes, you can do scientific research on paranormal stuff.
Of cours you can't. You are merely trying to establish non-science as science and with that you are following the path shared by all irrationalists in modern age which is the age of science.
I've already proven you can.
:lol:
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Best Evidence for Afterlife - BICS ESSAY COMPETITION - $ 500,000 Prize

Post by Modus.Ponens »

SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:12 pm
Modus.Ponens wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:10 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:02 am
Of cours you can't. You are merely trying to establish non-science as science and with that you are following the path shared by all irrationalists in modern age which is the age of science.
I've already proven you can.
:lol:
What do you call published research on acupuncture? And published research on touch therapy, which is supposed to transmit energy? This stuff is published in medicine journals. But you insist on not accepting the obvious. Drink the water already.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
Post Reply