Irrelevant to my comment. The Buddha teaches us to feel love toward all living beings like a mother loves her child. You can be moral and don't believe in rebirth.SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:35 pmCaution. Don't confuse 'not following morality' with intentionally performing immorality. Coursing in signs, morality may appear as if important but not coursing in signs, morality and immorality are irrelevant concepts.sphairos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:14 pmbecause u gonna hurt people around u ? And hurting people feels bad, like hurting yourself?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:37 pm
If rebirth dont exist why should i follow morality?
The 'I am' that follows morality is the same 'I am' that appropriates "rebirth". Therefore CL's question is ambiguous: when there is no 'I am' rebirth does not exist but there also isn't 'I am' that may follow morality.
Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
The question ConfusedLayman poised is similar to "If you don't believe in hell and God, what is your morality based upon?" It is conflating rebirth with karma en toto. You can believe in karma without believing in rebirth. It just means you think different things about what is "karmically possible" versus impossible (i.e. "rebirth" here).
You can even be moral without believing in "karma" at all. Gasp!
You can even be moral without believing in "karma" at all. Gasp!
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Difficult, possibly impossible, if you believe in 1 life.sphairos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:16 pmIrrelevant to my comment. The Buddha teaches us to feel love toward all living beings like a mother loves her child. You can be moral and don't believe in rebirth.SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:35 pmCaution. Don't confuse 'not following morality' with intentionally performing immorality. Coursing in signs, morality may appear as if important but not coursing in signs, morality and immorality are irrelevant concepts.
The 'I am' that follows morality is the same 'I am' that appropriates "rebirth". Therefore CL's question is ambiguous: when there is no 'I am' rebirth does not exist but there also isn't 'I am' that may follow morality.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Well, if there is a buddha that teaches you something that's great.sphairos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:16 pmIrrelevant to my comment. The Buddha teaches us to feel love toward all living beings like a mother loves her child. You can be moral and don't believe in rebirth.SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:35 pmCaution. Don't confuse 'not following morality' with intentionally performing immorality. Coursing in signs, morality may appear as if important but not coursing in signs, morality and immorality are irrelevant concepts.
The 'I am' that follows morality is the same 'I am' that appropriates "rebirth". Therefore CL's question is ambiguous: when there is no 'I am' rebirth does not exist but there also isn't 'I am' that may follow morality.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
[The Teacher speaking:]Sam Vara wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:36 pmBecause, unlike the survival of species according to evolutionary theory, there is no mechanism which might explain why certain systems of thought succeed or fail according to their veracity. Someone making a positive claim about the natural selection of ideas ought to be able to explain why that is the case.
Stero's reply and Sam Vara's reply to SteRo's reply are perfect evidences for the superiority of SteRo's system of thought in terms of optimally aligning itself to reality. It's obvious that Sam Vara has not penetrated reality whereas SteRo has.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Are you going to address this potentially interesting point, or are you going to indulge in evasive clowning?SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:05 pm[The Teacher speaking:]Sam Vara wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:36 pmBecause, unlike the survival of species according to evolutionary theory, there is no mechanism which might explain why certain systems of thought succeed or fail according to their veracity. Someone making a positive claim about the natural selection of ideas ought to be able to explain why that is the case.
Stero's reply and Sam Vara's reply to SteRo's reply are perfect evidences for the superiority of SteRo's system of thought in terms of optimally aligning itself to reality. It's obvious that Sam Vara has not penetrated reality whereas SteRo has.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
[The Teacher abides in silence ]Sam Vara wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:25 pmAre you going to address this potentially interesting point, or are you going to indulge in evasive clowning?SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:05 pm[The Teacher speaking:]Sam Vara wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:36 pm
Because, unlike the survival of species according to evolutionary theory, there is no mechanism which might explain why certain systems of thought succeed or fail according to their veracity. Someone making a positive claim about the natural selection of ideas ought to be able to explain why that is the case.
Stero's reply and Sam Vara's reply to SteRo's reply are perfect evidences for the superiority of SteRo's system of thought in terms of optimally aligning itself to reality. It's obvious that Sam Vara has not penetrated reality whereas SteRo has.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Perhaps he should think about becoming a permanent resident there. Or at least buying some sort of timeshare arrangement.SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:35 pm[The Teacher abides in silence ]Sam Vara wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:25 pmAre you going to address this potentially interesting point, or are you going to indulge in evasive clowning?SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:05 pm
[The Teacher speaking:]
Stero's reply and Sam Vara's reply to SteRo's reply are perfect evidences for the superiority of SteRo's system of thought in terms of optimally aligning itself to reality. It's obvious that Sam Vara has not penetrated reality whereas SteRo has.
- retrofuturist
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Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Greetings SteRo,
Metta,
Paul.
That's fine, but also in light of a few of your recent posts, it feels necessary to remind you also that...
TOS 1 - Intention wrote:Dhamma Wheel is an environment for the discussion of Theravada Buddhism. Special forums have been created for special areas of interest so please respect these boundaries
Regardless of how you identify, please ensure you tread on the right side of the Terms of Service.TOS 2 - Speech wrote:Any subject matter that may be off-topic or is intended to cause disruption or harm may be removed without notice. This includes, but is not restricted to: (2g) Attacks against the Buddha, Dhamma, or Sangha, which violate the Intention of this forum
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
That's impossible due to continuous flow which is no different from universal flux of materiality.
BTW The talk of "he" is inappropriate ... when illusory mentality subsides back into materiality ... is it called "he" or "it"?
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Pronoun policing is a sure sign that something's up.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
It starts to talk sense or it gets the hose again.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Well, if there is no Buddha for you and you are "teaching" yourself -- good luckSteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:52 pmWell, if there is a buddha that teaches you something that's great.sphairos wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:16 pmIrrelevant to my comment. The Buddha teaches us to feel love toward all living beings like a mother loves her child. You can be moral and don't believe in rebirth.SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:35 pm
Caution. Don't confuse 'not following morality' with intentionally performing immorality. Coursing in signs, morality may appear as if important but not coursing in signs, morality and immorality are irrelevant concepts.
The 'I am' that follows morality is the same 'I am' that appropriates "rebirth". Therefore CL's question is ambiguous: when there is no 'I am' rebirth does not exist but there also isn't 'I am' that may follow morality.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
How true are your ways?
- SamanaJohann2
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:30 pm
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
Thinking in terms of "we" is already a strong notion of secular view of the path, good householder. So it seems like one asks just from one world (secular) to take part on another or? "Ism" in addition makes it really an ironical seeming question, or doesn't it?SarathW wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:52 am Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
There are many kind of Buddhist schools. Mahayana, Theravada, Ambdekar, Secular etc.
The question is what is the minimum standard to accept as Buddhist teaching?
- Is that the members take three refuges?
- Is it that the school follows Tipitaka?
- Can I pick and chose and make a new Buddhist school
- If I don't know or understand Kamma Vipaka, rebirth Nibbana, etc can I drop them and make a new school?
- Do secular Buddhist follow Tipitaka or some sort of reference point (book)?
- At what point it could be heretical?
My person guesses, if honest reflecting, good householder could easy find release from his doubts and open question, right?
Re: Can we accept secular Buddhism as Buddhism?
DooDoot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:24 pm "Cultural Buddhists" are similar to "Eternalists" & "Materialists". They believe the Buddha taught something continues after physical death. They believe "birth" ("jati"), "death" ("marana"), "kaya" ("the body"), etc, are "physical" or "material".
"Secular Buddhists" are similar to "Annihilationists". They believe the Buddha taught about the "eternalistic rebirth reincarnation" the Cultural Buddhists believe in yet they choose to disbelieve it. Therefore, Secular Buddhists are self-declared heretics.