if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Tutareture
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if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Tutareture »

I'm not saying it is or isn't.I believe that its young,including other planets.see https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
אַל-תְּהִי צַדִּיק הַרְבֵּה, וְאַל-תִּתְחַכַּם יוֹתֵר: לָמָּה, תִּשּׁוֹמֵם. Be not righteous overmuch; neither make thyself overwise; why shouldest thou destroy thyself? -Ecclesiastes 7:16
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am I'm not saying it is or isn't.I believe that its young,including other planets.see https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
If you want to present yourself as scientific you can't currently claim that the Earth is young, since the current theory is that it is roughly 4.3 billion years old. This isn't young, by human standards.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am I'm not saying it is or isn't.I believe that its young,including other planets.see https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
How old the earth, universe or Samsara is not going to change Buddha's teaching.
Say earth is only created yesterday but the suffering of the mind is the same irrespective of the age of the planet.
What Buddha taught was the suffering, the reason for the suffering, the path to end the suffering and the end of suffering.
:D
PS:
In Buddhist philosophy, the time and space is a mental construct.
Last edited by SarathW on Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Ceisiwr »

The widely accepted age of the universe is currently 13.77 billion years and for the solar system (including Earth) it is 4.543 billion years. However, no scientific method can prove the age of the earth and the universe, and that includes the ones we have listed here that strongly suggest that these accepted ages are in serious error. Although age indicators are called ‘clocks’ they aren’t, because all ages result from calculations that necessarily involve making assumptions about the past. The starting time of the ‘clock’ has always to be assumed as well as the way in which the speed of the clock has varied over time. Further, it has to be assumed that the clock was never disturbed.

There is no independent natural clock against which those assumptions can be tested. For example, the amount of cratering on the moon, based on currently observed cratering rates, would suggest that the moon is quite old. However, to draw this conclusion we have to assume that the rate of cratering has been the same in the past as it is now. And there are now good reasons for thinking that it might have been quite intense in the past, in which case the craters do not indicate an old age at all (see below).
Radioisotopes decay at a known rate. This means we can date rocks based on the abundance of the decay products found. Using this method the age of the Earth is calculated to be, from memory, between 4.3-4.5 billion years old. This does not prove that the Earth is 4.3-4.5 billion years old. As the article points out, that would require knowing that in the past radioisotopes decayed then at the same rate. You can't get to that knowledge, what Hume called the uniformity of nature, because of the inherent folly of inductive reasoning and verificationism. This is why science does not prove anything, contra to your claims in another thread. It simply gives us the best working hypothesis at the time. If you want to keep your prior claim that your Theistic views are scientific, then you need to abandon any claim to them being known truths. Just like the age of the Earth it would be a mere hypothesis, only this time without any evidence or hope of falsifiability.

Besides rocks we can also look to the expansion of the universe. As stars move away from us in all directions they red-shift. The rate of expansion has also been found to be increasing. Naturally this means if we roll the clock back then all matter was condensed at one point in the past. Based on the rate of expansion we can calculate the age of the universe. From this we get roughly 13.5 billion years old. Once again, however, due to the epistemological trap of induction and verificationism we can't say this with certainty. Rather it is the best current theory, based on the evidence.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by cappuccino »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
trying to disprove Buddhism is perilous


you would do better to ignore it


at least if karma is real……
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by DooDoot »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
in DN 16, the Pali word commonly translated as "aeon" ("kappa") is used in a way that obviously does not mean "aeon".
Kappam va tittheyya kappavasesam va. Comy. takes kappa not as "world-period" or "aeon," but as ayu-kappa, "life span," and explains avasesa (usually "remainder") by "in excess."

Comy.: "He may stay alive completing the life span pertaining to men at the given time. (Sub. Comy.: the maximum life span.) Kappavasesa: 'in excess' (atireka), i.e., more or less above the hundred years said to be the normally highest life expectation."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... html#fn-21
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Inedible »

It is crazy to truly believe the world is that young. If it were, though, it wouldn't be a problem for Buddhism.
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Kim OHara »

Inedible wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:38 am It is crazy to truly believe the world is that young.
Yes.
If it were, though, it wouldn't be a problem for Buddhism.
It would be a problem for the kind of Buddhism which says, "Everything in the sutras is literally true," because that sets up an unwinnable clash with science.
That attitude is not common in Buddhism, but we do see it sometimes and we see it (far too often) in Christianity.

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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by SteRo »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
Would there be something like "buddhism" in that case? :shrug: "buddhism" is one of many products of the flux of materiality which has history.
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by chownah »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am I'm not saying it is or isn't.I believe that its young,including other planets.see https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
IF IF IF the earth was young (it isn't) then the buddha would be describing a different time frame so aeons would not arise in his teachings.

You can not rationally suppose that a change in one thing would not effect lots of other things.....if the earth was young and not old then a lot of other stuff would have changed too.....but since this is contrafactual and thus a construal then what other things would change is also a construal......so....go ahead and construe to your hearts content but it is all meaningless. You should go to the suttas and find what the buddha had to say about construing.....I assure you it is not good....
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Dhammanando »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am see https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth
See also this refutation of all the 101 arguments in your link.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/101_evide ... e_universe
Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
It might if it were, but since it isn't it doesn't.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am
but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
No. because the Buddha said the world system and galaxies and galactic clusters are all impermanent and also go through a cycle of birth and destruction. So it doesnt really matter that much how young or old the earth really is. Technically the estimate of earths age of 4.3 billion years would disprove some theravada commentaries and traditions beliefs on Buddhist aeons cuz these traditions describe it as "incalculably" long. so the earth being 4 billion years old is just as disproving as 10,000 years old if you took those texts perfectly literal.
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:32 am
Tutareture wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:08 am but if it is,wouldn't that disprove the aeons in buddhism?
No. because the Buddha said the world system and galaxies and galactic clusters are all impermanent and also go through a cycle of birth and destruction. So it doesnt really matter that much how young or old the earth really is. Technically the estimate of earths age of 4.3 billion years would disprove some theravada commentaries and traditions beliefs on Buddhist aeons cuz these traditions describe it as "incalculably" long. so the earth being 4 billion years old is just as disproving as 10,000 years old if you took those texts perfectly literal.
Well said, but moreover, it's irrelevant to the real matter that the Buddha concerned himself - namely, dukkha and its cessation. Things that do matter are not dependent upon the age of planets.

:alien:

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Paul. :)
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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Bundokji »

Thinking of science and religion as two separate branches of knowledge to understand the world help us to get the most of both. Using one to falsify the other is not necessarily the best way.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

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Re: if the age of the earth and other planets is less than 10,000 years old would is be compatible with buddhism?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Conventional realities.

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𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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