bodhisattvas

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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mario92
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bodhisattvas

Post by mario92 »

Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
plabit
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by plabit »

mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
concept of bodhisattvas seems to me to have originated like this:

bodhisattas (no v) simply meant someone who decided to seek enlightenment.

First there was just becoming a Buddha or arhant directly in one life, so one was a bodhisattas for one life.

Then people said "oh no that would take building up to it over billions of lives" so they invented bodhisattas continuing their journey to become a Buddha over billions of lives.

Then they said "to be a bodhisattas one must receive a prophecy from a Buddha that they will become a Buddha in the future." So then a bodhisatta meant someone who received a prophecy in person from a Buddha billions of lives ago that they would become a Buddha in the future.

Then Mahayana invented the whole stalemate paradox version of Buddhism, i.e. vowing to not become a Buddha until everyone else does or something like that. So then they added a v to bodhisatta and made it bodhisattVa, which means someone who done already did reach enlightenment but refuses to become a Buddha yet until everyone else does.
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mario92
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by mario92 »

plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:25 pm
mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
concept of bodhisattvas seems to me to have originated like this:

bodhisattas (no v) simply meant someone who decided to seek enlightenment.

First there was just becoming a Buddha or arhant directly in one life, so one was a bodhisattas for one life.

Then people said "oh no that would take building up to it over billions of lives" so they invented bodhisattas continuing their journey to become a Buddha over billions of lives.

Then they said "to be a bodhisattas one must receive a prophecy from a Buddha that they will become a Buddha in the future." So then a bodhisatta meant someone who received a prophecy in person from a Buddha billions of lives ago that they would become a Buddha in the future.

Then Mahayana invented the whole stalemate paradox version of Buddhism, i.e. vowing to not become a Buddha until everyone else does or something like that. So then they added a v to bodhisatta and made it bodhisattVa, which means someone who done already did reach enlightenment but refuses to become a Buddha yet until everyone else does.
Thanks Plabit i understand they came from mahayana sutras.
Last edited by mario92 on Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disciple
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by Disciple »

mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
They are real just as you and me. One can meet them through deep meditation and receive teachings according to Mahayana.
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mario92
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by mario92 »

Thanks for the answer disciple
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by plabit »

Disciple wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:42 pm
mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
They are real just as you and me. One can meet them through deep meditation and receive teachings according to Mahayana.
But these teaching are just "everything is emptiness" so what would be the point?
Disciple
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by Disciple »

plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:01 pm
Disciple wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:42 pm
mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
They are real just as you and me. One can meet them through deep meditation and receive teachings according to Mahayana.
But these teaching are just "everything is emptiness" so what would be the point?
Don't know. You might get some better answers on dharmawheel.net
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by SteRo »

mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
Theravada buddhism is religion as is mahayana buddhism. So maybe the worry about the reality of theravada or mahayana concepts isn't justified ... ??
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
plabit
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by plabit »

SteRo wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:39 pm
mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm Hello according to Mahayana buddhism there are a lot of bodhisattvas i searched them and they are, just to name: In Tibetan Buddhism, the major bodhisattvas are known as 'The eight bodhisattvas': Ksitigarbha, Vajrapani, Akasagarbha, Avalokitesvara, Maitreya, Nivaranaviskhambhin, Samantabhadra and Manjushri.

How real can be considered this bodhisattvas? how do they came to be known to the people? I only know Metteya or Maitreya is not a boddhisatva but a future buddha, and Avalokitesvara is the form of this future buddha. But how about the others? (there are more) How real are they? Thanks
Theravada buddhism is religion as is mahayana buddhism. So maybe the worry about the reality of theravada or mahayana concepts isn't justified ... ??
what does that supposed to mean? contrasting religions is invalid because they're all religions? really?
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by SteRo »

plabit wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:06 am what does that supposed to mean? contrasting religions is invalid because they're all religions? really?
It's up to you to contrast a patch of space with another patch of space. :shrug:
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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retrofuturist
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm How real can be considered this bodhisattvas?
Not real.
mario92 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm how do they came to be known to the people?
They were invented, much like Christians invented God.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by Coëmgenu »

The story of Avalokiteśvara is that he is a real person who is an advanced practitioner of Mahāyāna Buddhism. Whether or not he "really exists" is another matter. Another less common story of the origins of Avalokiteśvara is that he is a manōmayakāya of a foreign Tathāgata from another world-system named Saddharmapradīpa Tathāgata.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
plabit
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by plabit »

SteRo wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:50 am
plabit wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:06 am what does that supposed to mean? contrasting religions is invalid because they're all religions? really?
It's up to you to contrast a patch of space with another patch of space. :shrug:
Is a patch of space kind of like a field? Buddha seemed to think contrasting two "fields of merit" was valid and he could say one was better than the other. Why can't the same contrast be made of original Buddhism vs Theravada vs Mahayana?
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Re: bodhisattvas

Post by SteRo »

plabit wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:10 am
SteRo wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:50 am
plabit wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:06 am what does that supposed to mean? contrasting religions is invalid because they're all religions? really?
It's up to you to contrast a patch of space with another patch of space. :shrug:
Is a patch of space kind of like a field?
it's nothing. But of course you may call nothing "a field" Once there arises 'I am' there's always an object and an object has a name.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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