Where exactly is "Here" ?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

As found in phrases like: "here & now".

Or, is there any actual "Here" at all?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Sam Vara »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:09 am As found in phrases like: "here & now".

Or, is there any actual "Here" at all?

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It's where you are, relative to the things around you.
pegembara
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by pegembara »

That has always been the case, isn't it?
If not you are not here, where would you be?
If not now, when?
Or, is there any actual "Here" at all?
Actually, there isn't a here or there.
Just this.

“ Svakhato Bhagavata Dhammo, Sanditthiko, Akaliko, Ehipassiko, Opanayiko, Paccatam Veditabbo, Vinnuhi’ ti.”
Last edited by pegembara on Fri May 07, 2021 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Sam Vara wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:11 am

It's where you are, relative to the things around you.

Thanks.

To rephrase, it is where "I" am? Or, imo, it is more appropriate to say: it is where "I" is ?

When observing: "tip of the nose" or something like that, the tip of my nose seems "over there", not very "here-ish". The same may apply to the center of the chest/body/etc.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

pegembara wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:24 am That has always been the case, isn't it?
If not you are not here, where would you be?
If not now, when?
Or, is there any actual "Here" at all?
Actually, there isn't a here or there.
Just this.
Deep :thumbsup:
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Sam Vara
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Sam Vara »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:32 am
Sam Vara wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:11 am

It's where you are, relative to the things around you.

Thanks.

To rephrase, it is where "I" am? Or, imo, it is more appropriate to say: it is where "I" is ?
The former is more grammatically correct, but they both appear to mean the same thing.
When observing: "tip of the nose" or something like that, the tip of my nose seems "over there", not very "here-ish". The same may apply to the center of the chest/body/etc.
Yes, in these adverbs relating to position there is always an element of performativity; you are pointing something out, either to yourself or to another person. "Here" can mean "where I am now", as is when we call a dog to us. Or it can mean "where I am pointing to", as in "I am here on the map", or "I have a pain here", or "I feel the breath here". As it is difficult to spatially locate an "I" or "you", it's best to think of it as an act of pointing or referral.
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Post by sunnat »

'and now' is the key pointing to the present moment, moment to moment as each moment becomes the present. Wherever the conventional I is at that moment. Another way of saying 'that which is real', which is always in the present which is where one is, as opposed to 'that which is not real', the past (memories) or the future (imaginings) which is where one is not.
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by confusedlayman »

consciousness cognising its object ... or consciousness bound to object
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Bundokji
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Bundokji »

What do you mean by actual?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

It's very easy to get lost in word games and tangled in a complication of deep meaning.
"Here" is very simple. No need to complicate.
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Pondera
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Pondera »

A good friend of mine used to stand outside the door way and exclaim, “Glad to be here!”

Then he’d walk through the door into the house, stand straight up in one spot and exclaim, “Glad to be here!” :rofl:

(I think it might have been an old John Lennon joke).

“Here” is a very conventional concept. The above illustrates how absurd it can be on a readily accessible level. If there is anatta, there is no here (nor there). But, neither here nor there; I’m glad to be here at “Dhammawheel” - wink, wink (oh no. existential crises coming. Oh boy! Here we go again. There! I said it again!!! OH ... NO. I’m staring into the abyss).

Viz - there is no “here” - there is only suffering and despair. So, go “somewhere” else - wink, wink 😉
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

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Dhammanando
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Dhammanando »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:09 am As found in phrases like: "here & now".

Or, is there any actual "Here" at all?
When the phrase is used to translate diṭṭhadhammika (e.g., when jhāna is described as "a pleasant abiding in the here and now" or when certain of the Buddha's teachings are said to be "for the sake of welfare in the here and now"), the "here" is that portion of the okāsaloka which is accessible to your sense-bases and the "now" is the duration of your present life.
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by Inedible »

This is part of working with the experience of the five aggregates. Form or materiality is where you are. Here, if you prefer. Feeling is how you are. Perceptions, impulses, and consciousness are harder to say.
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Re: Where exactly is "Here" ?

Post by SteRo »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:09 am As found in phrases like: "here & now".

Or, is there any actual "Here" at all?

:heart:
"Here" is where directed thought "here" arrives.
Cleared.
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