Western Buddhist cult?

[form]

Eastern buddhist cults are common. Is there any western Buddhist cult?

[SteRo]

Eastern buddhist cults are common. Is there any western Buddhist cult?

There isn't any buddhist community which isn't cult. And yes, there are exclusively western communities.

[Aloka]

I would consider any western organisation a cult if it was a platform for controlling teachers who were worshipped and treated like gods, and who had affairs with their students.




.

[SteRo]

Definition of cult

1 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see spurious sense 2) also : its body of adherents //the voodoo cult //a satanic cult

2a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book) //criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion //the singer's cult of fans //The film has a cult following.

3 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual also : its body of adherents //the cult of Apollo

4 : formal religious veneration : worship

5 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator //health cults

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Items 2, 3 and 4 cover all of buddhism as cult

[SarathW]

Eastern buddhist cults are common. Is there any western Buddhist cult?

There isn't any buddhist community which isn't cult. And yes, there are exclusively western communities.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you unless you specifically mention it with reasons.
For instance, can we call any of the prominent Western Buddhist monks such as Ven Tannisaro, Ajahn Brahm, Bhiiku Bodhi, or Ven Sujato cult leaders?

[SteRo]

Eastern buddhist cults are common. Is there any western Buddhist cult?

There isn't any buddhist community which isn't cult. And yes, there are exclusively western communities.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you unless you specifically mention it with reasons.

See dictionary quote above.

For instance, can we call any of the prominent Western Buddhist monks such as Ven Tannisaro, Ajahn Brahm, Bhiiku Bodhi, or Ven Sujato cult leaders?

The issue is "cult or not cult". You are now introducing a new one which is "cult leader or not cult leader".

[SarathW]

There isn't any buddhist community which isn't cult. And yes, there are exclusively western communities.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you unless you specifically mention it with reasons.

See dictionary quote above.

For instance, can we call any of the prominent Western Buddhist monks such as Ven Tannisaro, Ajahn Brahm, Bhiiku Bodhi, or Ven Sujato cult leaders?

The issue is "cult or not cult". You are now introducing a new one which is "cult leader or not cult leader".

My understanding is that a cult should have a cult leader.

[SteRo]

My understanding is that a cult should have a cult leader.

Then your understanding deviates from the definition quoted above. To me it seems as if buddhists would like to have their own buddhist definition of "cult" to be able to distance themselves from certain communities ... "we are good but those are bad."

Or you would like to restrict the definition of "cult" to "great devotion to a person" exclusively even though this is only one of several potential meanings of "cult" according to the definition quoted.

[SarathW]

great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work

Is this reference to the cult leader.
Is Buddha, Jesus, and Mohamed are a cult leader?
If there a large following, does it consider a cult?

[SteRo]

great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work

Is this reference to the cult leader.
Is Buddha, Jesus, and Mohamed are a cult leader?
If there a large following, does it consider a cult?

I don't know the meaning of "cult leader". If a community has great devotion to a person that person cannot be said to "lead" this cult.

But according to the definition quoted buddhism can be considered a "Gautama cult" referring to Gautama as person. But of course a cult referring to a living person is more dangerous, considering financial or sexual exploitation.

"Cult of personality" is common in countries led by dictators (but since recently also in the US ->Trumpism)

Definition of cult of personality

: a situation in which a public figure (such as a political leader) is deliberately presented to the people of a country as a great person who should be admired and loved

https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... ersonality

[Coëmgenu]

The usage of "cult" that SteRo is pulling out of the dictionary, particularly usage 3 from the quoted material, is an older conservative and neutral sense of cult. "The Cult of the Nazarene" for instance, in this usage, refers to Christianity before it had doctrines and was systematic. At the cult of the Nazarene stage, a theorized stage of Christianity, it was just a loose bunch of Jesus-enthusiasts with little organization who had "agape meals," a prototype eucharist, and met in gatherings in their houses rather than public buildings. Christians use this term, however, and this usage is not negative. The cult or cultus of Gautama, if we still talked like this, would be Buddhism. Specific elements of the "cultus" of Gautama would include the monastic uposatha, recitation of the Pāṭimokkha at that event, recitation of the suttas and other scripture, etc. Nowadays, when we use the word "cult," we tend to only have modern negative meanings in mind.

[form]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you unless you specifically mention it with reasons.

See dictionary quote above.

For instance, can we call any of the prominent Western Buddhist monks such as Ven Tannisaro, Ajahn Brahm, Bhiiku Bodhi, or Ven Sujato cult leaders?

The issue is "cult or not cult". You are now introducing a new one which is "cult leader or not cult leader".

My understanding is that a cult should have a cult leader.

Yes. Like Charles Manson.

[form]

I would consider any western organisation a cult if it was a platform for controlling teachers who were worshipped and treated like gods, and who had affairs with their students.




.

This is common in Asia. For example they twisted the dhamma and mystified the leader. But I do not remember any western Buddhism organisation that fit into this description.

[Coëmgenu]

It is common in Chinese culture, in China and in Chinese diaspora alike, for major monasteries to always celebrate their abbot's parinirvāṇa after their "death." Students at the 10,000 Buddhas Monastery celebrated Xuānhuà's "parinirvāṇa" after he "died" in a similar show of "piety."

[Coëmgenu]

In relation to the OP, there were several cults operating under the umbrella of SGI in the 70s-90s and likely there still are. There are numerous Vajrayāna cults in the West too. Theravāda "proper" does not form cults because proper compartment and vinaya observation would prevent a bhikkhu from becoming a "cult leader" in the negative sense. That doesn't mean that Theravāda "improper" doesn't get twisted up like every other religion that someone makes a cult out of and that bad monks don't conduct themselves shamefully and twist their precepts to allow for a more "cult leadery" interaction with the laity or even other bhikkhus.

I only know of Eastern Theravāda cults, not Western ones, but I don't doubt they exist somewhere.