All religions started off as philosphy

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by form »

In ancient India, maybe all religions started as dhamma. I define dhamma as the highest law or knowledge possible. Different philosophers will have their own theories to how to be liberated from a unsatisfactory world. I think the word, dukka existed before the Buddha was born. And the challenge of how to overcome dukka has always been there as well.

Although, the record of the Buddha's sayings that we have now is based on an Indian setting, those earlier Buddhas may be speaking another language or from another planet other than Earth. It puzzled me why the Buddha has never mentioned another civilisation that also existed at the same time as his time, since he was said to be able to survey other worlds with his divine eye and has various psychic powers to travel very efficiently.

Was he limited by his own language or maybe Indian views and customs at that time? His descriptions of physical geographical areas seems to be limited to India only as well. In one world system for a very long time there will only be one Buddha. Wouldn't it be better if he were to speak to a bigger audience from different countries in his lifetime?
sphairos
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:37 am
Location: Munich, Germany

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by sphairos »

I think the first thing you should think of is a definition of religion.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
Spiny Norman
Posts: 10162
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by Spiny Norman »

form wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:34 pm I heard of this from in a lecture. The speaker continue.... When a philosophy becomes a religion, then it becomes a problem.

Does this make sense to u?
I suspect it's more the other way round. Philosophy as an attempt to rationalise the irrational.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by SteRo »

asahi wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:13 am
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:54 am
An intention isn't a philosophy but an intention can be based on a philosophy. Whatever Gotama intended fact is that he taught a philosophy after he attained his intended goal, a philosophy of dukkha, its cause, release and the path to release.


Doesn't matter. Buddhism today is called "religion". If there weren't all these metaphysical speculations it might be called "philosophy" but since there are all these metaphysical speculations it is rightly called "religion".
So philosophy is something about metaphysical matters ? Buddhism is accepted as a religion not by itself "is" .
Why not say Dhamma is just another type of teaching ?
No, you misread. I've written "but since there are all these metaphysical speculations it is rightly called "religion"."

But I have to admit that this hasn't been consistently analysed since there are also a lot of philosophies that do speculate metaphysically. So actually metaphysical speculation cannot be the defining characteristic of religion. However what is the defining characteristic of religion is the soteriological thrust (salvation, liberation and the like) of the underlying narrative or philosophy.

Of course, from my perspective what you call "dhamma" is just another type of religious teaching. My interest in philosophies and religions is their psychological effects.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by SteRo »

sphairos wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:38 pm I think the first thing you should think of is a definition of religion.
A narrative or philosophy that includes ethical guidelines and yogic methods (prayer and/or meditation and/or physical yoga or the like) and the assertion that if it is believed and followed and practiced then soteriological effects like salvation or liberation or the like will ensue.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
48vows
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by 48vows »

Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:31 pm
form wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:34 pm I heard of this from in a lecture. The speaker continue.... When a philosophy becomes a religion, then it becomes a problem.
I suspect it's more the other way round. Philosophy as an attempt to rationalise the irrational.
You are basically correct
48vows
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by 48vows »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:59 am My interest in philosophies and religions is their psychological effects.
I am also interested in this - it is almost a sub-discipline of anthropology of religion.
You have read william james and evans pritchard ?
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: All religions started off as philosphy

Post by SteRo »

48vows wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:58 am
SteRo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:59 am My interest in philosophies and religions is their psychological effects.
I am also interested in this - it is almost a sub-discipline of anthropology of religion.
You have read william james and evans pritchard ?
I don't know these persons. I am not doing systematic studies. It's more kind of detached observation and drawing own conclusions in terms of lay psychology or lay psychotherapy.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Post Reply