Is human consciousness creating reality?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Is human consciousness creating reality?

Is the physical universe independent from us, or is it created by our minds, as suggested by scientist Robert Lanza?

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science ... ng-reality


Image

:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
Alino
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Alino »

What is ALL ?
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

he Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

Is the physical universe independent from us, or is it created by our minds
The way I see, that the universe is consist of five aggregate.
Human has the whole five aggregate and plants perhaps have Rupa only.
Some believe that Arupavacara beings do not have Rupa.
Without perception and feeling it is not possible to experience the world.
It is not necessarily the human consciousness, it is the consciousness (Vinnana) create the reality.
Whatever it is we all are in it.
So we all just a little cog of the same wheel.
The world seems to have a subtle (Dhatu) and gross (objects) element.
The important point in terms of Buddhism is that it is not your consciousness but it is the consciousness.
Creating dispassion for it called Nibbana.

:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SteRo »

Is human consciousness real?
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by confusedlayman »

I think we should not think of this as its not related to goal.

how ever consciousness and perception are needed for knowing
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

SteRo wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:46 am Is human consciousness real?
Buddha said that the Vinnana is a magician's trick.
Not only consciousness the whole five aggregates seems an illusion.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by pegembara »

"Reality" according to whom?

The flat world was a reality at one time or the Earth was the centre of the universe.

Does reality change?
What happens when realities collide?
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

pegembara wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:15 am "Reality" according to whom?

The flat world was a reality at one time or the Earth was the centre of the universe.

Does reality change?
What happens when realities collide?
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Agree.
We are living in a dependently originated universe.
For instance, trees and rocks are just names.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Goofaholix »

We certainly distort reality based on our perceptions and delusions, but to suggest we create it seems daft to me.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

Goofaholix wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:22 am We certainly distort reality based on our perceptions and delusions, but to suggest we create it seems daft to me.
Agree.
We certainly distort our experience.
However, say If I see an apple and see it just as food to satisfy my hunger, how do we explain that?
Is an apple a delusion?
Is my hunger a delusion?
Or both are delusions?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Alino
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Alino »

SarathW wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:13 am
he Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Yes, according to this sutta we can suppose that consciousness is a some kind of light that going through particular shape of mind create particular world in which this mind will dwell in a relative harmony.

In other words Samsara (nama-rupa?) is some kind of equation where two sides of equation related by the sign of equality "=". The problem is that nama changes faster than rupa, and because of greed, hatred and delusion mind which is reborn in some world still unsatisfied, equation changes and the mechanism of Samsara say something like: OK, you are not at peace here, your mind changed, so go try here, this world seems more appropriate to your mind state. But here to it changes and equation never solves...

I think Samsara is just some equation, and when mind finely riches peace where he is - its solved... no more wandering.
Maybe this sign of equality "=" is the fonction of consciousness... Con-sciousness (mutual-consideration?)

So I think that - yes changement of mind changes the world. And as less stable objects turns around more stables ones (like the moon around the earth, or earth around the sun) at some point if practice mind reaches so great peace and stability that it become possible for him to change the world around "online"... iddhi...

Just some suppositions...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by pegembara »

SarathW wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:33 am
Goofaholix wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:22 am We certainly distort reality based on our perceptions and delusions, but to suggest we create it seems daft to me.
Agree.
We certainly distort our experience.
However, say If I see an apple and see it just as food to satisfy my hunger, how do we explain that?
Is an apple a delusion?
Is my hunger a delusion?
Or both are delusions?
The perception of a tasty apple as opposed to rotten flesh is because "rotten things" make us sick.
Rotten meat is "tasty" for vultures or hyenas since they don't become ill after consuming it.
Natural selection at work here.

Plausible theory
As we go about our daily lives, we tend to assume that our perceptions — sights, sounds, textures, tastes — are an accurate portrayal of the real world. Sure, when we stop and think about it — or when we find ourselves fooled by a perceptual illusion — we realize with a jolt that what we perceive is never the world directly, but rather our brain’s best guess at what that world is like, a kind of internal simulation of an external reality. Still, we bank on the fact that our simulation is a reasonably decent one. If it wasn’t, wouldn’t evolution have weeded us out by now? The true reality might be forever beyond our reach, but surely our senses give us at least an inkling of what it’s really like.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-evol ... -20160421/
https://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffma ... y_as_it_is
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Spiny Norman
Posts: 10169
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Spiny Norman »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:07 am Is human consciousness creating reality?

Is the physical universe independent from us, or is it created by our minds, as suggested by scientist Robert Lanza?

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science ... ng-reality


Image

:namaste:
If you drop a brick on your foot it's going to hurt. 😜
Buddha save me from new-agers!
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Verse 1. Suffering Follows The Evil-Doer

Mind precedes all knowables,
mind's their chief, mind-made are they.
If with a corrupted mind
one should either speak or act
dukkha follows caused by that,
as does the wheel the ox's hoof.


Image

Explanation: All that we experience begins with thought. Our words and deeds spring from thought. If we speak or act with evil thoughts, unpleasant circumstances and experiences inevitably result. Wherever we go, we create bad circumstances because we carry bad thoughts. This is very much like the wheel of a cart following the hoofs of the ox yoked to the cart. The cart-wheel, along with the heavy load of the cart, keeps following the draught oxen. The animal is bound to this heavy load and cannot leave it.


Verse 2. Happiness Follows The Doer of Good

Mind precedes all knowables,
mind's their chief, mind-made are they.
If with a clear, and confident mind
one should speak and act
as one's shadow ne'er departing.


Image

Explanation: All that man experiences springs out of his thoughts. If his thoughts are good, the words and the deeds will also be good. The result of good thoughts , words and deeds will be happiness. This happiness will never leave the person whose thoughts are good. Happiness will always follow him like his shadow that never leaves him.

http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_twin.htm
“Then how many kinds of deed do you describe for performing bad deeds?”

“I describe three kinds of deed for performing bad deeds: physical deeds, verbal deeds, and mental deeds.”

“But are these kinds of deed all distinct from each other?”

“Yes, each is quite distinct.”

“Of the three deeds thus analyzed and differentiated, which deed do you describe as being the most blameworthy for performing bad deeds: physical deeds, verbal deeds, or mental deeds?”

“I describe mental deeds as being the most blameworthy for performing bad deeds, not so much physical deeds or verbal deeds.”

“Do you say mental deeds, Reverend Gotama?”

“I say mental deeds, Tapassī.”

“Do you say mental deeds, Reverend Gotama?”

“I say mental deeds, Tapassī.”

“Do you say mental deeds, Reverend Gotama?”

“I say mental deeds, Tapassī.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn56/en/sujato
:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
Post Reply