Is human consciousness creating reality?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Goofaholix
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Goofaholix »

SarathW wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:33 am However, say If I see an apple and see it just as food to satisfy my hunger, how do we explain that?
Is an apple a delusion?
Is my hunger a delusion?
Or both are delusions?
Hunger is a physical sensation. The point is that you didn't create the apple with your mind, if you did chances are it would be a mango.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
SarathW
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

Goofaholix wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:57 pm
SarathW wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:33 am However, say If I see an apple and see it just as food to satisfy my hunger, how do we explain that?
Is an apple a delusion?
Is my hunger a delusion?
Or both are delusions?
Hunger is a physical sensation. The point is that you didn't create the apple with your mind, if you did chances are it would be a mango.
Somebody would have named the mango as an apple or the apple as a mango.
What are matters here is the taste of mango or apple.
Even if I like mangoes if I eat them too much I will get sick or will dislike them.
Buddha equated the feeling to a water bubble.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

Spiny Norman wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:14 pm

If you drop a brick on your foot it's going to hurt. 😜
This is my point.
I the brick real?
Is the pain real?
Or both are delusions?
What if my leg was anesthetised? Is the pain still there?

If I assume somebody hit my head with a rock and if I die, is that an illusion?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

SarathW wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:33 am
Goofaholix wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:22 am We certainly distort reality based on our perceptions and delusions, but to suggest we create it seems daft to me.
Agree.
We certainly distort our experience.
However, say If I see an apple and see it just as food to satisfy my hunger, how do we explain that?
Is an apple a delusion?
Is my hunger a delusion?
Or both are delusions?
There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands. As the cosmos expands, sentient beings mostly pass away from that host of radiant deities and come back to this realm. Here they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.
https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato
2. Solid Nectar Appears
But the single mass of water at that time was utterly dark. The moon and sun were not found, nor were stars and constellations, day and night, months and fortnights, years and seasons, or male and female. Beings were simply known as ‘beings’. After a very long period had passed, solid nectar curdled in the water. It appeared just like the curd on top of hot milk-rice as it cools. It was beautiful, fragrant, and delicious, like ghee or butter. And it was as sweet as pure manuka honey. Now, one of those beings was reckless. Thinking, ‘Oh my, what might this be?’ they tasted the solid nectar with their finger. They enjoyed it, and craving was born in them. And other beings, following that being’s example, tasted solid nectar with their fingers. They too enjoyed it, and craving was born in them.
https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato
3. The Moon and Sun Appear
Then those beings started to eat the solid nectar, breaking it into lumps. But when they did this their luminosity vanished. And with the vanishing of their luminosity the moon and sun appeared, stars and constellations appeared, days and nights were distinguished, and so were months and fortnights, and years and seasons. To this extent the world had evolved once more.

Then those beings eating the solid nectar, with that as their food and nourishment, remained for a very long time. But so long as they ate that solid nectar, their bodies became more solid and they diverged in appearance; some beautiful, some ugly. And the beautiful beings looked down on the ugly ones: ‘We’re more beautiful, they’re the ugly ones!’ And the vanity of the beautiful ones made the solid nectar vanish. They gathered together and bemoaned, ‘Oh, what a taste! Oh, what a taste!’ And even today when people get something tasty they say: ‘Oh, what a taste! Oh, what a taste!’ They’re just remembering an ancient primordial saying, but they don’t understand what it means.
https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

:goodpost: Lucas
But what is your point?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Is human consciousness creating reality?
  • Questions come up to me:
    • Which reality? Of what? For whom? From what dimension? Out of which perspective? etc.
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
SarathW
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

The way I see it just that consciousness alone can't create reality.
The consciousness arises when Rupa Dhathu collided with each other.

Nama-rupa paccaya Vinnana
Vinnanana paccaya namarupa

Consciousness and the so-called reality are dependently originated, hence it is called an illusion.
When you remove the causes the reality also ceases.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:13 am
he Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The use of the above sutta sounds like Solipsism.

In reality, the Buddha said there is a fixed reality independent of consciousness.
Whether Realized Ones arise or not, this law of nature persists, this regularity of natural principles, this invariance of natural principles:

Uppādā vā, bhikkhave, tathāgatānaṁ anuppādā vā tathāgatānaṁ ṭhitāva sā dhātu dhammaṭṭhitatā dhammaniyāmatā.

all things are not-self.

Sabbe dhammā anattā.

A Realized One understands this and comprehends it,

Taṁ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti.

then he explains, teaches, asserts, establishes, clarifies, analyzes, and reveals it:

Abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā ācikkhati deseti paññāpeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti:

‘All things are not-self.’”

‘sabbe dhammā anattā’”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/an3.136/en/sujato
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SarathW
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

In reality, the Buddha said there is a fixed reality independent of consciousness.
No,
Buddha never said that there is a fixed reality independent of consciousness.
You are trying to justify your wrong view that the Nibbana is another type of consciousness.
:tongue:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:53 am :tongue:
The above appears to be laughing at the Buddha. :shock:
Whether Realized Ones arise or not, this law of nature persists, this regularity of natural principles, this invariance of natural principles

SN 12.20; AN 3.136
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by cappuccino »

SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:53 am You are trying to justify your wrong view that the Nibbana is another type of consciousness.
there is just consciousness


even with Nirvana
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

cappuccino wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:05 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:53 am You are trying to justify your wrong view that the Nibbana is another type of consciousness.
there is just consciousnessAgee


even with NirvanaDisagree
You are on the wrong path too, unfortunately.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by cappuccino »

SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:58 am You are on the wrong path too, unfortunately.
"Well then, friend Kotthita, does the Tathagata not exist after death?"

"Friend, that too has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata does not exist after death.'"

Sariputta-Kotthita Sutta
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Re: Is human consciousness creating reality?

Post by SarathW »

cappuccino wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:11 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:58 am You are on the wrong path too, unfortunately.
"Well then, friend Kotthita, does the Tathagata not exist after death?"

"Friend, that too has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata does not exist after death.'"

Sariputta-Kotthita Sutta
It does not mean that Thathagatha exists after death.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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