Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SteRo
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by SteRo »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 am The thing that unites buddhism and hinduism is Meditation as the tool for liberation.
With this in mind,why do YOU think Hindu meditators come up with atman,and modern buddhists with anatman?
A curious state of affairs.
Fabrication does not stop before death and is nutured by tradition and culture.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:27 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:21 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:20 pm
Lol! So your telling me what my experience is?
What are you,a priest!?
This is your linguistic interpretation/confusion/dialectic
Zero empiricism or personal experience in your statement.
No. If you have directly experienced an atta then could you tell us what it is? How did you experience it? Where is it?
I am an atta. Every feeling is my atta. Its here,wherever I am. I experienced it with feelings which are mine. An atta is an individual nexus of feelings and will. I've experienced nothing else all my life. How's that for empirical?!
If I experience pain, which is a feeling, where is the atta in that? If feeling is atta then millions of different attas would rise and fall per day (if not more). How is that a self? If the atta is experiencing the feeling, then it isn’t feeling. So, what then is this atta? Personally I’ve experienced the concept of a self, but like the Buddha and Hume when I partake in an investigation of experience i can’t find anything which corresponds with the concept.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Zenny
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:29 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 am The thing that unites buddhism and hinduism is Meditation as the tool for liberation.
With this in mind,why do YOU think Hindu meditators come up with atman,and modern buddhists with anatman?
A curious state of affairs.
Fabrication does not stop before death and is nutured by tradition and culture.
Ah. A materialist nihilist! But no doubt your conceptual scaffolding is less fabricated!
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by SteRo »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:31 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:29 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 am The thing that unites buddhism and hinduism is Meditation as the tool for liberation.
With this in mind,why do YOU think Hindu meditators come up with atman,and modern buddhists with anatman?
A curious state of affairs.
Fabrication does not stop before death and is nutured by tradition and culture.
Ah. A materialist nihilist! But no doubt your conceptual scaffolding is less fabricated!
Of course, there is just seeing words, conditioned processing and conditioned fabrication.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:31 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:27 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:21 pm

No. If you have directly experienced an atta then could you tell us what it is? How did you experience it? Where is it?
I am an atta. Every feeling is my atta. Its here,wherever I am. I experienced it with feelings which are mine. An atta is an individual nexus of feelings and will. I've experienced nothing else all my life. How's that for empirical?!
If I experience pain, which is a feeling, where is the atta in that? If feeling is atta then millions of different attas would rise and fall per day (if not more). How is that a self? If the atta is experiencing the feeling, then it isn’t feeling. So, what then is this atta? Personally I’ve experienced the concept of a self, but like the Buddha and Hume when I partake in an investigation of experience i can’t find anything which corresponds with the concept.
You are the feeling. Its yours. That is the atta. You can have several feelings at once,all unified by being YOURS. The feelings are the self. Different states of the self.
To me and most others it's self evident,and always is and has been,and will be.
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:31 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:29 pm

Fabrication does not stop before death and is nutured by tradition and culture.
Ah. A materialist nihilist! But no doubt your conceptual scaffolding is less fabricated!
Of course, there is just seeing words, conditioned processing and conditioned fabrication.
Lol! And you mister miracle have escaped this conditioning or reduced it to a scaffold! Bravo!
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
User avatar
Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:35 pm
You are the feeling. Its yours. That is the atta. You can have several feelings at once,all unified by being YOURS. The feelings are the self. Different states of the self.
To me and most others it's self evident,and always is and has been,and will be.
Sorry, I’m confused here. Is the atta feeling or that which experiences feeling? You still haven’t told me what it is, so currently I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about bar the concept itself. Your reasoning also seems a little circular so far, which would mean it’s a logical fallacy.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by SteRo »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:36 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:31 pm
Ah. A materialist nihilist! But no doubt your conceptual scaffolding is less fabricated!
Of course, there is just seeing words, conditioned processing and conditioned fabrication.
Lol! And you mister miracle have escaped this conditioning or reduced it to a scaffold! Bravo!
Nothing can be escaped from, there is nothing to be escaped from, conditioning just goes on. "Escape" from this or that is just a conditioned buddhist obsession.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:38 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:35 pm
You are the feeling. Its yours. That is the atta. You can have several feelings at once,all unified by being YOURS. The feelings are the self. Different states of the self.
To me and most others it's self evident,and always is and has been,and will be.
Sorry, I’m confused here. Is the atta feeling or that which experiences feeling? You still haven’t told me what it is, so currently I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about bar the concept itself.
Its both. I've just told you above what it is. Feigning confusion won't wash with me matey.
How do you know your experiences are yours? What is that makes you know they are yours? Clue; identity . Your Self.
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:40 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:36 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:34 pm
Of course, there is just seeing words, conditioned processing and conditioned fabrication.
Lol! And you mister miracle have escaped this conditioning or reduced it to a scaffold! Bravo!
Nothing can be escaped from, there is nothing to be escaped from, conditioning just goes on. "Escape" from this or that is just a conditioned buddhist obsession.
I'm not buddhist. Try reading a little carefully. Less assumptions.
Try to think what my OP is getting at. Ask a question o assumptive one!
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by SteRo »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:44 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:40 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:36 pm
Lol! And you mister miracle have escaped this conditioning or reduced it to a scaffold! Bravo!
Nothing can be escaped from, there is nothing to be escaped from, conditioning just goes on. "Escape" from this or that is just a conditioned buddhist obsession.
I'm not buddhist. Try reading a little carefully. Less assumptions.
Try to think what my OP is getting at. Ask a question o assumptive one!
Of course "you are" neither this nor that but buddhist conditioning manifests itself nevertheless when associating "escape from". Your OP is getting at nothing but supports manifesting conditionings nevertheless.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:44 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:40 pm

Nothing can be escaped from, there is nothing to be escaped from, conditioning just goes on. "Escape" from this or that is just a conditioned buddhist obsession.
I'm not buddhist. Try reading a little carefully. Less assumptions.
Try to think what my OP is getting at. Ask a question o assumptive one!
Of course "you are" neither this nor that but buddhist conditioning manifests itself nevertheless when associating "escape from". Your OP is getting at nothing but supports manifesting conditionings nevertheless.
The irony of this post! The man has brainwashed himself with science and intellectual gymnastics. Then presumes to talk about buddhist conditioning when a buddhist/Hindu term is used.
If I use the word logic is that Greek conditioning?!
What a caricature and insecure robot you are!
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
User avatar
Ceisiwr
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:41 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:38 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:35 pm
You are the feeling. Its yours. That is the atta. You can have several feelings at once,all unified by being YOURS. The feelings are the self. Different states of the self.
To me and most others it's self evident,and always is and has been,and will be.
Sorry, I’m confused here. Is the atta feeling or that which experiences feeling? You still haven’t told me what it is, so currently I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about bar the concept itself.
Its both. I've just told you above what it is. Feigning confusion won't wash with me matey.
How do you know your experiences are yours? What is that makes you know they are yours? Clue; identity . Your Self.
How is it both feeling and that which feels? If it’s feeling, then the self rises and dies many times a day. How is the self of one feeling the same self as the other? It also doesn’t tell me what this self is. Feeling is just pain, for example. Where is the atta in the fleeting experience of pain? If it’s what is experiencing pain, what is it? What is atta? What does the concept relate to?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Zenny
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:59 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:41 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:38 pm

Sorry, I’m confused here. Is the atta feeling or that which experiences feeling? You still haven’t told me what it is, so currently I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about bar the concept itself.
Its both. I've just told you above what it is. Feigning confusion won't wash with me matey.
How do you know your experiences are yours? What is that makes you know they are yours? Clue; identity . Your Self.
How is it both feeling and that which feels? If it’s feeling, then the self rises and dies many times a day. How is the self of one feeling the same self as the other? It also doesn’t tell me what this self is. Feeling is just pain, for example. Where is the atta in the fleeting experience of pain? If it’s what is experiencing pain, what is it? What is atta? What does the concept relate to?
Its both. Simple. It ain't no concept,it's experience.
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by SteRo »

Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:52 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:44 pm
I'm not buddhist. Try reading a little carefully. Less assumptions.
Try to think what my OP is getting at. Ask a question o assumptive one!
Of course "you are" neither this nor that but buddhist conditioning manifests itself nevertheless when associating "escape from". Your OP is getting at nothing but supports manifesting conditionings nevertheless.
The irony of this post! The man has brainwashed himself with science and intellectual gymnastics. Then presumes to talk about buddhist conditioning when a buddhist/Hindu term is used.
If I use the word logic is that Greek conditioning?!
What a caricature and insecure robot you are!
Maybe irony, maybe not. It's a display of conditioning. If the word logic is used the conditioning manifests in the concept not in the word.

"Caricature"?
Definition of caricature

(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : exaggeration by means of often ludicrous distortion of parts or characteristics
2 : a representation especially in literature or art that has the qualities of caricature
3 : a distortion so gross as to seem like caricature
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caricature
:shrug:

"Insecure robot"? That seems to be inconsistent since insecurity might be a trait of humans, not of robots. But yes ... there is a similarity with "robot" since there is no "I am" but conditionings drive interactions.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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