Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Zenny
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

auto wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:47 pm
Zenny wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:00 pm
auto wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:53 pm
If to stop indulgence, it feels bad at first but nice later.
And when does it stop?
Seeing as nobody seems able to get to nirvana then you are reliant on your desire your whole life.
From that training arises consciousness and when that consciousness ceases, you still retain the knowing what comes useful for not getting corrupted by the passing corruptions.
And apart from gautama had anybody got close to this yet? Any living examples?
And what in the world is "conciousness ceases"? You know without being concious???
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cappuccino
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:05 pm Any living examples?
the current world is too skeptical


hence no one will claim anything
Zenny
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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cappuccino wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:53 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:05 pm Any living examples?
the current world is too skeptical


hence no one will claim anything
And yet you are the one being skeptical about knowledge in saying " I don't know".
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:05 pm And apart from gautama had anybody got close to this yet? Any living examples?
And what in the world is "conciousness ceases"? You know without being concious???
You can see and not being conscious of it that you do. This kind of thing is below the intellect, so i don't mean that. What i mean is the knowledge what knows how physical and mental are connected/tangled by the craving. This knowledge can be applied at the moment when consciousness ceases(life-continuum) and impulsion(urge) arises.
Zenny
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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auto wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:00 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:05 pm And apart from gautama had anybody got close to this yet? Any living examples?
And what in the world is "conciousness ceases"? You know without being concious???
You can see and not being conscious of it that you do. This kind of thing is below the intellect, so i don't mean that. What i mean is the knowledge what knows how physical and mental are connected/tangled by the craving. This knowledge can be applied at the moment when consciousness ceases(life-continuum) and impulsion(urge) arises.
With respect,can't you write clearer. This is just convoluted.
When in the world and how does conciousness cease but still know?
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by auto »

Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:38 pm
auto wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:00 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:05 pm And apart from gautama had anybody got close to this yet? Any living examples?
And what in the world is "conciousness ceases"? You know without being concious???
You can see and not being conscious of it that you do. This kind of thing is below the intellect, so i don't mean that. What i mean is the knowledge what knows how physical and mental are connected/tangled by the craving. This knowledge can be applied at the moment when consciousness ceases(life-continuum) and impulsion(urge) arises.
With respect,can't you write clearer. This is just convoluted.
When in the world and how does conciousness cease but still know?
When you are aware, there is also the hidden urge. This urge comes known after awareness ceases for a moment. Now what comes next i haven't explained yet, but then you can make this hidden thing appear without awareness taking a dip unless you have came off the path meanwhile, which probably happen anyway 7 times, so no biggy.

Maybe change a topic or something.
Zenny
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

auto wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:19 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:38 pm
auto wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:00 pm
You can see and not being conscious of it that you do. This kind of thing is below the intellect, so i don't mean that. What i mean is the knowledge what knows how physical and mental are connected/tangled by the craving. This knowledge can be applied at the moment when consciousness ceases(life-continuum) and impulsion(urge) arises.
With respect,can't you write clearer. This is just convoluted.
When in the world and how does conciousness cease but still know?
When you are aware, there is also the hidden urge. This urge comes known after awareness ceases for a moment. Now what comes next i haven't explained yet, but then you can make this hidden thing appear without awareness taking a dip.
Hidden urge?
You mean a desire? How is a desire hidden?
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cappuccino
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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consciousness / awareness never ceases


what is true is that it changes in terms of content
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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cappuccino wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:41 pm consciousness / awareness never ceases


what is true is that it changes in terms of content
Yes. That is true!
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:43 pm Yes. That is true!
:)
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

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Zenny wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:29 pm
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:25 pm
Zenny wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:24 pm

Making simple things like truth into a complex nagajurnan science drama is also what I'm referring to.
:lol:
Nagarjuna even made the simple thing "truth" into a double thing "two truths"
Yes. Making a dogma of "two truths" and not true, true,not not true etc etc Is an abuse of clear language and honest communication.
Nagarjuna was a dogmatist, you are right. As far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the way things are asserted to be that's dogmatism, too. However as far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things that simply is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things.
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Zenny
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:05 pm
Zenny wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:29 pm
SteRo wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:25 pm

:lol:
Nagarjuna even made the simple thing "truth" into a double thing "two truths"
Yes. Making a dogma of "two truths" and not true, true,not not true etc etc Is an abuse of clear language and honest communication.
Nagarjuna was a dogmatist, you are right. As far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the way things are asserted to be that's dogmatism, too. However as far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things that simply is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things.
They are all the same dogma.
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by SteRo »

Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:07 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:05 pm
Zenny wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:29 pm

Yes. Making a dogma of "two truths" and not true, true,not not true etc etc Is an abuse of clear language and honest communication.
Nagarjuna was a dogmatist, you are right. As far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the way things are asserted to be that's dogmatism, too. However as far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things that simply is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things.
They are all the same dogma.
My attitude towards appearing things isn't a dogma because I don't care about the attitude other people have towards things. For me appearing things are neither real, nor not real, nor both, nor neither. But I can live happily with other people considering things to be real.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Zenny
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by Zenny »

SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:12 pm
Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:07 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:05 pm

Nagarjuna was a dogmatist, you are right. As far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the way things are asserted to be that's dogmatism, too. However as far as "not true, true,not not true etc etc" is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things that simply is an expression of the attitude one has towards appearing things.
They are all the same dogma.
My attitude towards appearing things isn't a dogma because I don't care about the attitude other people have towards things. For me appearing things are neither real, nor not real, nor both, nor neither. But I can live happily with other people considering things to be real.
But you think that what you believe is coherent when it's not at all.
That's dogma.
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism on Atman.

Post by cappuccino »

Zenny wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:18 pm That's dogma.
not everyone here is clear about Buddhism


you may be arguing with I know not what
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