What is Protestant Buddhism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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SarathW
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What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

What is Protestant Buddhism?
I can't recall we had many discussions in Dhamma Wheel on this subject.
The following video gives some insight into this.
Is Dhamma Wheel some kind of a protestant movement?

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Sam Vara
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by Sam Vara »

Here are some earlier discussions:

viewtopic.php?t=8966
viewtopic.php?t=11664

That's a clear explanation on that video, SarathW, so thank you.

I think that (according to how it is defined) Protestant Buddhism could be said either to be an essential precondition of enterprises like DW, or somewhere where various forms of Protestant Buddhism are expressed. I'm very aware of the cultural superiority angle which is hinted at in Rajapakse's criticism of the term (around 16m. in the video) but I guess the similarities with Protestant Christian reforms were very striking for westerners and those familiar with western history. The term stuck, because it is appropriate.

Another interesting issue is the point made by sociologist Anthony Giddens in the 1990s that even the most "fundamentalist" stances towards religion are, in our age of Late Modernity, a response to the rationalist and secularising tendencies inherent in modernity. There are very few types of Buddhism which have not been affected by these features of Protestant Buddhism.
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DooDoot
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by DooDoot »

To call laypeople studying & preaching Dhamma from scripture "Protestants" is superficial & not inherently "Protestant Buddhism".

Protestantism in Europe was largely a political rather than spiritual movement, which laid down the foundations for the reintroduction of the Jewish Old Testament "Gospel of Prosperity" for the new economic elites who were seeking political power.

Protestantism in Europe involved:

1. Reviling of the priests, celibate renunciates and Saints by laypeople; thus similar to the reviling of monks, Noble Sangha and celibacy by many Westerners. When the Lutherans attacked Rome, they killed priests and raped nuns, similar to what the Communists and their International Brigades did during the Spanish Civil War of 1936 to 1939.

2. Creation of a doctrine of salvation by faith alone rather than Christ's doctrine of salvation by deeds.

3. Rejection of Christ's doctrine of non-divorce.

4. Rejection of Christ's doctrine of "one cannot love god and money".
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DooDoot
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by DooDoot »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:26 pm 1. Reviling of the priests, celibate renunciates and Saints by laypeople...
An example of the above is secular buddhists such as Stephen Batchelor, who appeared to assert the Buddha did not completely eradicate the defilements.

It is such heresies which are similar to Protestantism, who (while not denying the sanctity of Christ) similar to many Sri Lankans, declare sainthood is not possible for people and that Christ only taught goodness to show he was God.

Isn't it Sri Lankan Buddhism that says it is not possible for anyone to be a sotapanna, let alone an Arahant, today?

It is these doctrines held by many Asian Buddhists, such as claiming Abhidhamma is required, that are forms of Protestantism.

The people protest & reject the Buddha teaching.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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DNS
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by DNS »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:31 am Is Dhamma Wheel some kind of a protestant movement?
No, it's a discussion forum. We have a variety of people following a variety of traditions, only a few (or less) of which could be called Protestant Buddhism.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10641&start=15
SarathW
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:26 pm To call laypeople studying & preaching Dhamma from scripture "Protestants" is superficial & not inherently "Protestant Buddhism".

I agree.
There is a Sutta where Buddha asked monks to learn from a lay person.
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
SarathW wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:36 am There is a Sutta where Buddha asked monks to learn from a lay person.
Or moreover, as your video said, the Buddha taught us to be "a lamp unto ourselves". We must do our own learning and practice, as no priestly intermediary can do it on our behalf.

One area where I think the video is mistaken is that the narrator implies that the move back towards the Suttas is a lay movement. I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, as I think monks like venerables Buddhadasa, Nanavira and Nanananda have led the charge in the return to Buddhavacana. We've just been invited to be part of it, by virtue of the ready availability of Sutta translations.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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SarathW
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:03 pm
Isn't it Sri Lankan Buddhism that says it is not possible for anyone to be a sotapanna, let alone an Arahant, today?

Actually only Ven. Kiribathgoda Nananada say so at this stage.
The problem in Sri Lanka is there are too many Arahant monks and lay Arahants.
:tongue:
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confusedlayman
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:34 am
DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:03 pm
Isn't it Sri Lankan Buddhism that says it is not possible for anyone to be a sotapanna, let alone an Arahant, today?

Actually only Ven. Kiribathgoda Nananada say so at this stage.
The problem in Sri Lanka is there are too many Arahant monks and lay Arahants.
:tongue:
Maybe they really are ... we dont know for sure
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by Coëmgenu »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:26 pmProtestantism in Europe was largely a political rather than spiritual movement, which laid down the foundations for the reintroduction of the Jewish Old Testament "Gospel of Prosperity" for the new economic elites who were seeking political power.

Protestantism in Europe involved:

1. Reviling of the priests, celibate renunciates and Saints by laypeople; thus similar to the reviling of monks, Noble Sangha and celibacy by many Westerners. When the Lutherans attacked Rome, they killed priests and raped nuns, similar to what the Communists and their International Brigades did during the Spanish Civil War of 1936 to 1939.

2. Creation of a doctrine of salvation by faith alone rather than Christ's doctrine of salvation by deeds.

3. Rejection of Christ's doctrine of non-divorce.

4. Rejection of Christ's doctrine of "one cannot love god and money".
:goodpost:

I don't often agree with DooDoot. Specifically, in the quoted post, I disagree with the prosperity gospel being "Jewish," but feel it necessary and good to commend the remainder of it for being a very accurate and enlightening take on classical Protestantism.
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It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
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DooDoot
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:13 amI don't often agree with DooDoot.
That is because most often the discussion is about Buddhism rather than Christian drivel.
Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:13 am I disagree with the prosperity gospel being "Jewish,"
Sounds like political correctness & John 20:19

:focus:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by Coëmgenu »

No. Rather than being "political correctness," it is mere disagreement.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
form
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Re: What is Protestant Buddhism?

Post by form »

It is a westernised Buddhism off shoot.
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