Dopamine and Craving

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Pondera
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Dopamine and Craving

Post by Pondera »

Image

This is Dopamine. To learn about dopamine, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

Now, dopamine is an important neurotransmitter in the brain found to be (among other things) connected to the “reward and pleasure” pathways in the brain.

As a schizophrenic, I produce too much dopamine. If I do not consume dopamine antagonists, I basically go bat shyte crazy.

Too much dopamine is linked not only to this disease but also extreme risk taking (for example).

It is known to be released in anticipation of something rewarding or pleasurable.

I wonder if people here see a connection between dopamine and the “traditional” “cause of suffering” (ie. “Craving”). (perhaps some among us are familiar with the pharmacology of dopamine).

Does meditation decrease dopamine?
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Sam Vara
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Re: Dopamine and Craving

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I don't know anything about Chemistry, but the link between dopamine and craving is something that Robert Wright discusses in "Why Buddhism is True" and elsewhere. The basic idea is that evolution has hard-wired us for anticipation via dopamine. The actual pleasure we gain through achieving what we want is not as important as the desire and excitement of anticipation.

I believe meditation gives us insight into that process, and thereby the means to escape from a delusional anticipation which biologically dominates us.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Buddhism-T ... 338&sr=8-1

Here's a brief summary from Wright in dialogue:
WRIGHT:... I mean, this was in the Buddha's first sermon after his enlightenment - is that a big problem - a big source of our suffering is that we crave things. We want things. But then the gratification tends not to last. And so we find ourselves in a state of almost perennial dissatisfaction. And, in fact, people may have heard that Buddhism says that life is full of suffering.

And it's true that suffering is the translation of the word dukkha. It's a respectable translation, but a lot of people think that that word would be just as well-translated as unsatisfactoriness. We are condemned to always want things to be a little different, to always want a little more. And, certainly, when you think about the logic of natural selection, it makes sense that we would be like this, right? I mean, natural selection built us to do some things - a series of things that help us get genes into the next generation. Those include eating food so we stay alive, having sex, things like that.

And if it were the case that any of these things brought permanent gratification, then we would quit doing them, right? I mean, if you - you would eat. You'd feel blissed out. You'd never eat again. You'd have sex. You'd lie there, basking in the afterglow, never have sex again. Well, obviously, that's not a prescription for getting genes into the next generation. So natural selection seems to have built animals in general to be recurringly dissatisfied. And this is - seems to be a central feature of life, and it's central to the Buddhist diagnosis of what the problem is.

GROSS: And you quote a really interesting study about dopamine that also connects to the idea that pleasure is inevitably fleeting. Would you describe that study?

WRIGHT: Yeah. It was a study involving monkeys. And dopamine, as people may have heard it - it tends to be correlated with pleasure. Its exact role is still disputed. But it seems to be correlated with pleasure, with reward. And in these monkeys, they put fruit juice on their tongues. And they noticed that when the fruit juice hits the tongue the first time, there's a burst of dopamine, which presumably corresponds to a burst of pleasure.

Now, then they kept doing that, but they would signal the coming of the fruit juice with a light flashing on so that the monkeys could anticipate the reward. And what they saw is that more and more the dopamine came when the light went on, and there was less and less dopamine associated with the actual fruit juice. So it's hard to say what's going on in the brains of those monkeys.

But that's certainly consistent with our own experience, which is that the first time you have, like, a powdered-sugar donut, you are basking in the bliss. It's great. But more and more, you feel the intense desire for these things, and you anticipate the pleasure. But then you may find yourself not even paying attention when you eat the donut. And in any event, the pleasure will last less long. And pretty soon, you'll want another one.

GROSS: So did the study also find the equivalent of, like, the third and the fourth bite isn't as satisfying as the first - isn't as pleasure - as dopamine-releasing?

WRIGHT: That's certainly the implication. There was less and less dopamine accompanying the taste of the fruit juice as time went on.

GROSS: So you say psychologists have a word for this. It's the hedonic treadmill.

WRIGHT: Right. The idea is that, you know, this motivational structure, kind of never being enduringly gratified, keeps you working, keeps you seeking pleasure, keeps you seeking the next promotion, the next cool electronic gadget, you know, the next sexual conquest, whatever. But pleasure doesn't last. You're on the treadmill, and you continue to seek it.
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Re: Dopamine and Craving

Post by form »

Something to do with pleasure centre in the brain.
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Re: Dopamine and Craving

Post by form »

Pondera wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:25 am Image

This is Dopamine. To learn about dopamine, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

Now, dopamine is an important neurotransmitter in the brain found to be (among other things) connected to the “reward and pleasure” pathways in the brain.

As a schizophrenic, I produce too much dopamine. If I do not consume dopamine antagonists, I basically go bat shyte crazy.

Too much dopamine is linked not only to this disease but also extreme risk taking (for example).

It is known to be released in anticipation of something rewarding or pleasurable.

I wonder if people here see a connection between dopamine and the “traditional” “cause of suffering” (ie. “Craving”). (perhaps some among us are familiar with the pharmacology of dopamine).

Does meditation decrease dopamine?
Using drugs is the chemical approach to psychology.

Meditation is cognitive approach.
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Re: Dopamine and Craving

Post by form »

Gosh. The whole dhamma training can get support from brain chemistry.
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mjaviem
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Re: Dopamine and Craving

Post by mjaviem »

So do you think the destruction of lust, hatred, and delusion is about destroying some key dopamine receptors? What about the effort to abandon the unwholesome and keep the wholesome? Do you mean there's another path, another way, to peace, one that fiddles with brain physiology a la Aldous Huxley?
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Re: Dopamine and Craving

Post by form »

mjaviem wrote: Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:07 pm So do you think the destruction of lust, hatred, and delusion is about destroying some key dopamine receptors? What about the effort to abandon the unwholesome and keep the wholesome? Do you mean there's another path, another way, to peace, one that fiddles with brain physiology a la Aldous Huxley?
No. The mental training of the dhamma will automatically lead to a very ideal state in brain chemistry.
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