Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Mr Albatross
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Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by Mr Albatross »

Is there anything of importance that Theravada Buddhists can learn from the life and preaching of Rev. Ian Paisley, the late Democratic Unionist Party leader and founder of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?

I've searched this forum's archives, but it seems that nobody has ever thought of raising this question before.




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SDC
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

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He seemed to believe evil was a thing in the world to be defeated and had no understanding of how to find that discrepancy within his own views. Nothing to with Theravada because that direction of thinking has nothing to do with Dhamma.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
BrokenBones
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by BrokenBones »

Having grown up with the strident and violent voice of Mr Paisley booming from the television screen... I'll give it a resounding NO.

All the Troubles taught us was that there is no limit to mankind's stupidity & evil.
dharmacorps
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by dharmacorps »

What a bizarre person to try to connect to the dhamma.
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DooDoot
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by DooDoot »

Sounds like a Sri Lankan fundamentalist monk but with a louder voice.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Mr Albatross
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

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SDC wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:29 am He seemed to believe evil was a thing in the world to be defeated and had no understanding of how to find that discrepancy within his own views. Nothing to with Theravada because that direction of thinking has nothing to do with Dhamma.
Thanks, but I don't understand your first sentence. You've got to have TWO things to have a "discrepancy". But you have only mentioned ONE thing, Paisley's belief that "evil is a thing in the world to be defeated".

What is the other thing that this belief is discrepant with?
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SDC
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

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Mr Albatross wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:36 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:29 am He seemed to believe evil was a thing in the world to be defeated and had no understanding of how to find that discrepancy within his own views. Nothing to with Theravada because that direction of thinking has nothing to do with Dhamma.
Thanks, but I don't understand your first sentence. You've got to have TWO things to have a "discrepancy". But you have only mentioned ONE thing, Paisley's belief that "evil is a thing in the world to be defeated".

What is the other thing that this belief is discrepant with?
Evil as opposed to good externally. Wholesome vs unwholesome internally. Sorry I thought that was obvious.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

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Mr Albatross wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:06 am Is there anything of importance that Theravada Buddhists can learn from the life and preaching of Rev. Ian Paisley, the late Democratic Unionist Party leader and founder of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?
The impression is religion was a form of politics for him instead of a path of goodness. It seems he regarded his own evil as goodness. He obviously believed in the theft & also often murder called 'colonialism'.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Aloka
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

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Mr Albatross wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:06 am Is there anything of importance that Theravada Buddhists can learn from the life and preaching of Rev. Ian Paisley, the late Democratic Unionist Party leader and founder of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?
What an unusual question!

Yes, an important lesson that can be learned is to avoid religious fundamantalism.


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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

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Mr Albatross wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:06 am Is there anything of importance that Theravada Buddhists can learn from the life and preaching of Rev. Ian Paisley
perhaps to value the teaching of awakening


that our finding it is a coincidence to never take for granted
Mr Albatross
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by Mr Albatross »

SDC wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:53 pm Evil as opposed to good externally. Wholesome vs unwholesome internally. Sorry I thought that was obvious.
Hmm. It's still not obvious, but thanks for trying. I'm guessing that English probably isn't your mother tongue and maybe the word 'discrepancy' means something different where you come from.

The fact that wholesome and unwholesome states arise internally within oneself isn't discrepant with the fact that they also arise externally in others.

Obviously as a politician in a war-torn province Rev. Paisley's main concern was with combatting the potential effects of unwholesomeness arising in others, like the murderous IRA terrorists and their evil backers in the Catholic priesthood. But this thread isn't a political one. It's about Paisley as a religious figure. Being a diehard Calvinist naturally he was hugely concerned with internal unwholesomeness. To quote from Bruce's study:-
John Calvin made a number of contributions to Protestant theology, but the doctrine most associated with him is that of predestination. Although he defended the doctrine by reference to Bible texts, I will explain it in terms of much more general notions about God. Let us suppose that God is all-powerful. If that is so, he is hardly likely to be impressed by anything that we do, especially given the state of utter sinfulness we have been in since Adam turned his back on God in the Garden of Eden. As Paisley put it:

"If God gave me the due reward for my deeds, he would send me to hell this very moment. I am a sinner. There is nothing good about me. From the sole of the foot to the crown of the head there is no soundness in man, but wounds and bruises and putrifying sores."

Steve Bruce, _God Save Ulster! The Religion and Politics of Paisleyism_
Mr Albatross
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by Mr Albatross »

Aloka wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:01 am What an unusual question!
Yes, that's true. Asking questions that would never occur to most people is a lifelong peculiarity of mine.

Thanks for your reply!

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SDC
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Re: Theravada and Rev. Ian Paisley

Post by SDC »

Mr Albatross wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:29 am
SDC wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:53 pm Evil as opposed to good externally. Wholesome vs unwholesome internally. Sorry I thought that was obvious.
Hmm. It's still not obvious, but thanks for trying. I'm guessing that English probably isn't your mother tongue and maybe the word 'discrepancy' means something different where you come from.

The fact that wholesome and unwholesome states arise internally within oneself isn't discrepant with the fact that they also arise externally in others.
Ah, but it is when the nature of the relationship is not understood. He is carrying the assumption that suffering and it’s origin are coming from two different sources, a view which contains the sole source of his actual suffering and nothing more. As I said, he can’t “find” this inconsistency because he doesn’t think he has an additional source of the problem of his suffering. For him, there is no discrepancy, or to put it another way, he cannot identify the signs of one - but we can. This is revealed through the emphasis he puts on external sources of collective suffering. While he probably had no problem admitting that others can suffer individually, he didn’t see how identifying others as the source of his own suffering is wrong view. So like I said, his mode of thinking has nothing to do with the practice of Dhamma, though I’m sure he had some interesting things to say otherwise.

My previous replies have been vague and inconsiderate, but mainly because - based on a previous interaction - I have serious doubts as to whether what anyone has to say will change your mind about Rev. Paisley. Sorry about that.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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