Misconceptions on Buddhism in relation to Hinduism

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Dharmasherab
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Misconceptions on Buddhism in relation to Hinduism

Post by Dharmasherab »

During the time of Buddha in Ancient India, there were various belief systems. The most popular of these was the belief systems that were based on the Vedas. This was also a time when the Upanishads were emerging among Ancient Indian Brahmin priests. The Hinduism that existed during the time of Buddha had its differences compared to how it exists today, as collections of texts such as the Itihasas, Puranas, and Dharmashastras did not exist back then.

Unlike Buddhism, there is not a single set of practices or religious principles that are common to all schools of Hinduism. Therefore what is definitive of being a school of Hinduism is to consider the Vedas at the highest form of teachings (even though a lot of Hindus today tend to place more importance on post-Vedic texts when it comes to practice).

A feature of Hinduism that existed in Ancient India, was to consider the Brahmins having the highest spiritual authority among other groups of people. Therefore, sometimes the term ‘Brahmanism’ is used to distinguish ancient Hinduism from modern Hinduism where there are priests and teachers from any type of caste.

Whiles, there are useful teachings in some parts of the Vedas, the Buddha did not consider the Vedas as ‘scripture’. There were aspects within the Vedas such as the Varna system and rituals which involved sacrifices, which the Buddha was highly critical of. The Buddha did not see castes as an important factor in one’s ability to reach Enlightenment. He welcomed anyone who was interested in ‘going forth’ regardless of their caste. The Buddha openly denounced the caste system in his teachings, such as the Vasala Sutta (The Discourse on Outcastes). Because of his rejection of the caste system, it also meant that he didn’t consider the Brahmin caste as being the caste which has spiritual authority.

Therefore looking at the two points above, we can say that Buddhism, since the time of Buddha was (and still is) a non-Vedic, non-Brahmanic religion. Buddhism was of the Sramana tradition which was looked down upon by the Brahmins of Ancient India. Another Sramanic religion that existed during the time of Buddha was Jainism which is also non-Vedic, non-Brahmanic religion. As for the Buddha, whatever the predominant religion that existed in those days, he was not a follower of it.

The Buddha was neither a 're-interpreter' nor a reformer of Brahmanism. Instead he taught a belief system which was a separate distinct path from what existed at that time with its own spiritual outcome. Some terms which were used in Hindu terminology were given new meanings by the Buddha (such as the word Arya meaning one who is either enlightened as well as one who follows a path to reach that). This can be seen in Jainism too. An example of this is that Ahimsa in the Vedas originally meant to keep oneself safe and free from harm during the slaughtering of animals during animal sacrifices. The later in Jainism, the word Ahimsa was used to mean non-violence and harmlessness. This later adaptation of the term Ahimsa by Jainism was later also absorbed into Hinduism as it developed through the centuries, where its former meaning as implied by the Vedas became less important. As for the animal sacrifice practices the Buddha strongly condemned such practices. Within Buddhist ethical conduct, as we are all familiar with, it starts from the abstaining from killing or harming sentient beings.

As for Buddha’s relations they were also followers of Brahmanism. However, after the Enlightenment of Buddha, they parted from their former belief system and embraced the Buddha’s teachings. Two of Buddha’s cousins became Buddhist monks (Ananda and Nanda). Buddha’s aunt became the first fully ordained Buddhist nun. Buddha’s father went through the different stages of Enlightenment during his life and reached Parinirvana on his death bed.

Hinduism has gone through a series of reformations throughout the centuries with the introduction of new texts through the ages. Some of them had content within them which were influenced by Buddhism such as the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Reading a text like the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, it was obvious that Patanjali was positively influenced by Buddhism. The importance of animal sacrifices diminished in importance with time within Hinduism (even though some Hindu temples still continue this practice today) from the positive influences of Jainism and Buddhism. The development of Advaita Vedanta from AdhiShankara was a result of him being influenced by Mahayana Buddhism. Some of AdhiShankara’s contemporaries considered that he was actually teaching Buddhism in the garb of Hinduism.

During the middle ages, the idea that the Buddha was an incarnation (avatar) of Vishnu became popular in India. According to this story, Vishnu wanted to deceive his followers to test their faith, and therefore he came to Earth as Buddha to teach a false belief and corrupt the Vedic teachings. To accept this false belief as taught by the Buddha means that his followers failed this litmus test. Today, some Hindus do say that they respect the Buddha, but it remains rather ambiguous as to what they actually mean by ‘respect’ towards Buddha given that the Puranic texts of Hinduism consider the Buddha as a propagator of false beliefs and a corrupter of the Vedas.

As for Tantric Buddhism (Vajrayana), some academics consider that the ancient tantric religion got absorbed into Hinduism and Buddhism to give rise to Tantric forms of Hinduism and Buddhism. But this is a view that is held by some in academic circles and the traditionalist followers of Tantric schools of Hinduism and Buddhism may not necessarily agree with the academic version of what they recognize as the history of the development of Tantrism.

Hinduism has provided the world with really important teachings which have helped to transform people’s lives both spiritually as well as in worldly ways such as Yoga, Advaita, Kama Sutra and Tantra.

SUMMARY

1. Buddha was not a Hindu. Buddha did not accept the authority of the Brahmin priest caste. Whatever the predominant religion that existed at that time, the Buddha was not a follower of it, and neither were his relations.

2. Buddhism was not an offshoot/branch of Hinduism. The Buddha did not consider the Vedas as divine or being important for Enlightenment.

3. There is no single set of principles or practices which are common to all schools of Hinduism. Not even the view of one God as there are non-theistic forms of Hinduism. Therefore what is definitive of Hinduism, is that all Hindu schools consider the Vedas as the highest authority (even though most of the Hindu schools of today place more importance on post-Vedic texts and less on the Vedas when it comes to practice).

4. The Hinduism that existed during the time of Buddha was different from the Hinduism that exists today. During the time of the Buddha, the Hindu teachings were based on Vedas and the Upanishads were emerging. Today’s Hinduism is mostly based on post-Vedic texts.

IMPORTANT LINKS

Dharma Data: Hinduism from BuddhaNet
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dha ... /fdd48.htm

Article on Hinduism from Guide to Buddhism A to Z
http://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=175

Hinduism in Buddhist Perspective by V. A. Gunasekara
https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha255.htm

Dharma Data: The Caste system from BuddhaNet
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dha ... /fdd53.htm

Buddha's influence on Patanjali & Bhagavad Gita | Ajahn Sona & S.N. Goenka


Was Buddha a Hindu? by Bhante Sujato


Buddhism is not a branch of Hinduism (Agreement Signed by Shankaracharyas) by S.N. Goenka
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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DooDoot
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Re: Misconceptions on Buddhism in relation to Hinduism

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Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 am The Hinduism that existed during the time of Buddha
Hinduism didn't exist at the time of the Buddha. Hinduism appeared to evolve out of Buddhism.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amTherefore what is definitive of being a school of Hinduism is to consider the Vedas at the highest form of teachings
I don't have the impression the above is true.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amA feature of Hinduism that existed in Ancient India, was to consider the Brahmins having the highest spiritual authority among other groups of people. Therefore, sometimes the term ‘Brahmanism’ is used to distinguish ancient Hinduism from modern Hinduism where there are priests and teachers from any type of caste.
And? So?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amWhiles, there are useful teachings in some parts of the Vedas
Really? Which teachings? Why don't you quote these useful teachings for us. Thanks :thanks:
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 am the Buddha did not consider the Vedas as ‘scripture’. There were aspects within the Vedas such as the Varna system and rituals which involved sacrifices, which the Buddha was highly critical of.
Apart from his criticism of immoral Brahmins, please quote some suttas where the Buddha was critical of the Varna System? Thanks :thanks:
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amThe Buddha did not see castes as an important
In a number of suttas, the Buddha praised the warrior caste as best and said outcaste is not a good birth.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 am factor in one’s ability to reach Enlightenment. He welcomed anyone who was interested in ‘going forth’ regardless of their caste.
The above sounds illogical because when a person entered the Sangha they lost there caste. So it sounds illogical to say there was a diversity of castes in the Sangha and that the Sangha is comprised of different castes.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amThe Buddha openly denounced the caste system in his teachings, such as the Vasala Sutta (The Discourse on Outcastes).
Really? Where? Please quote? Thanks
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amBecause of his rejection of the caste system, it also meant that he didn’t consider the Brahmin caste as being the caste which has spiritual authority.
MN 95 literally says of the Buddha: "He doesn’t wish any harm upon the community of brahmins".
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amTherefore looking at the two points above, we can say that Buddhism, since the time of Buddha was (and still is) a non-Vedic, non-Brahmanic religion.
Sure. And so what?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amBuddhism was of the Sramana tradition which was looked down upon by the Brahmins of Ancient India.
Sorry but Sramana is Sanskrit. The Buddha appeared not part of a Sanskrit tradition.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amAnother Sramanic religion that existed during the time of Buddha was Jainism which is also non-Vedic, non-Brahmanic religion. As for the Buddha, whatever the predominant religion that existed in those days, he was not a follower of it.
Sure and so what?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amThe Buddha was neither a 're-interpreter' nor a reformer of Brahmanism.
Maybe but he was a reformer to Brahmins; such as in DN 13.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amInstead he taught a belief system which was a separate distinct path from what existed at that time with its own spiritual outcome.
And? So?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amSome terms which were used in Hindu terminology were given new meanings by the Buddha (such as the word Arya meaning one who is either enlightened as well as one who follows a path to reach that).
"Arya" i heard means "without enemies". Maybe words such as "nama-rupa" he used differently.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amAs for Buddha’s relations they were also followers of Brahmanism. However, after the Enlightenment of Buddha, they parted from their former belief system and embraced the Buddha’s teachings. Two of Buddha’s cousins became Buddhist monks (Ananda and Nanda). Buddha’s aunt became the first fully ordained Buddhist nun. Buddha’s father went through the different stages of Enlightenment during his life and reached Parinirvana on his death bed.
And. So?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amHinduism has gone through a series of reformations throughout the centuries with the introduction of new texts through the ages. Some of them had content within them which were influenced by Buddhism such as the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Reading a text like the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, it was obvious that Patanjali was positively influenced by Buddhism. The importance of animal sacrifices diminished in importance with time within Hinduism (even though some Hindu temples still continue this practice today) from the positive influences of Jainism and Buddhism. The development of Advaita Vedanta from AdhiShankara was a result of him being influenced by Mahayana Buddhism. Some of AdhiShankara’s contemporaries considered that he was actually teaching Buddhism in the garb of Hinduism.
And? So?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amDuring the middle ages, the idea that the Buddha was an incarnation (avatar) of Vishnu became popular in India. According to this story, Vishnu wanted to deceive his followers to test their faith, and therefore he came to Earth as Buddha to teach a false belief and corrupt the Vedic teachings. To accept this false belief as taught by the Buddha means that his followers failed this litmus test. Today, some Hindus do say that they respect the Buddha, but it remains rather ambiguous as to what they actually mean by ‘respect’ towards Buddha given that the Puranic texts of Hinduism consider the Buddha as a propagator of false beliefs and a corrupter of the Vedas.
? And? So?
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amAs for Tantric Buddhism (Vajrayana), some academics consider that the ancient tantric religion got absorbed into Hinduism and Buddhism to give rise to Tantric forms of Hinduism and Buddhism. But this is a view that is held by some in academic circles and the traditionalist followers of Tantric schools of Hinduism and Buddhism may not necessarily agree with the academic version of what they recognize as the history of the development of Tantrism.
If i recall accurately, i recall the Dalai Lama and Jeffrey Hopkins logically said in their book 'Tantra in Tibet' that Tantric Buddhism evolved out of Hinduism. The idea there was originally a "Tantric Buddhism" sounds unlikely.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amHinduism has provided the world with really important teachings which have helped to transform people’s lives both spiritually as well as in worldly ways such as Yoga, Advaita, Kama Sutra and Tantra.
Yoga is crap. How Yoga Can Wreck Your Body.
Dharmasherab wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:53 amSUMMARY

1. Buddha was not a Hindu. Buddha did not accept the authority of the Brahmin priest caste. Whatever the predominant religion that existed at that time, the Buddha was not a follower of it, and neither were his relations.

2. Buddhism was not an offshoot/branch of Hinduism. The Buddha did not consider the Vedas as divine or being important for Enlightenment.

3. There is no single set of principles or practices which are common to all schools of Hinduism. Not even the view of one God as there are non-theistic forms of Hinduism. Therefore what is definitive of Hinduism, is that all Hindu schools consider the Vedas as the highest authority (even though most of the Hindu schools of today place more importance on post-Vedic texts and less on the Vedas when it comes to practice).

4. The Hinduism that existed during the time of Buddha was different from the Hinduism that exists today. During the time of the Buddha, the Hindu teachings were based on Vedas and the Upanishads were emerging. Today’s Hinduism is mostly based on post-Vedic texts.
OK. Good effort. :thumbsup:
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Dharmasherab
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Re: Misconceptions on Buddhism in relation to Hinduism

Post by Dharmasherab »

What DooDoot is saying or trying to imply is mostly true. I am currently on retreat but will try to get time to reply to this. But not that I disagree with most of what DooDoot is saying.
“When one does not understand death, life can be very confusing.” - Ajahn Chah
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