The dhamma and modern psychology

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Bundokji
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The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

Many practitioners draw parallels between the teachings of the Buddha and modern psychology. There are many schools in both traditions, but the aspect i am interested in exploring are parallels between dependent origination, psychoanalysis, and knowledge of cycles.

One interpretation of DO is the mutual dependence of a child and his/her mother, resulting in attachments that are difficult to overcome in order to reach independence/adulthood, . The parallel here and the wider implication is our dependence and over-reliance on concepts, resulting in a dysfunctional relationship. The end of rebirth/dependence is the birth of a new human being, fearless with fresh vision of the world.

Have any of the members of this forum encountered such theories? sharing input and relevant material is appreciated.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
SarathW
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by SarathW »

Yes, I have seen the comparison of modern psychology with Dhamma.
However modern psychology is only one small aspect of Buddhism.
They do not teach you Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta of the five clinging aggregates.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

SarathW wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:11 pm Yes, I have seen the comparison of modern psychology with Dhamma.
However modern psychology is only one small aspect of Buddhism.
They do not teach you Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta of the five clinging aggregates.
In finding connections with other paths, we shift the paradigm from literal to metaphorical.

I am not talking about all modern psychology, but referring to a certain interpretation or method. The attachment to the mother (metaphorically speaking) can produce peculiar behavior such as causing trouble in order to seek independence by getting noticed (i am independent or working on it). This kind of relationship involves both wanting to have a normal and healthy relationship, but both cannot let go of their mutual dependence. There seems to be a gratifying aspect to both in the midst of misery.

Overcoming this stage does not mean ending the relationship, but making it healthy as it should be.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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dicsoncandra
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by dicsoncandra »

Bundokji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:11 pm Yes, I have seen the comparison of modern psychology with Dhamma.
However modern psychology is only one small aspect of Buddhism.
They do not teach you Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta of the five clinging aggregates.
In finding connections with other paths, we shift the paradigm from literal to metaphorical.

I am not talking about all modern psychology, but referring to a certain interpretation or method. The attachment to the mother (metaphorically speaking) can produce peculiar behavior such as causing trouble in order to seek independence by getting noticed (i am independent or working on it). This kind of relationship involves both wanting to have a normal and healthy relationship, but both cannot let go of their mutual dependence. There seems to be a gratifying aspect to both in the midst of misery.

Overcoming this stage does not mean ending the relationship, but making it healthy as it should be.
Some modern psychologists study on what they call 'trauma bonds', which they conclude to have stemmed from interpersonal relationship during chilhood that perpetuates cyclical patterns of abuse toward oneself/others during adulthood. You could refer to the.holistic.psychologist (Dr. Nicole LePera) on Instagram which became an internet sensation for explaining modern psychological concepts in simple terms. However, their approach diverges from the Buddhist path once they assume a Self to reconnect with. I personally sense a heavy emphasis on the idea that the primary caregivers (i.e., parents) are to blame for (i.e., the cause of) their dysfunction during adulthood, out of which the concept of 'reparenting' came about. Nonetheless, their goal seems to be about being in tune with oneself, setting healthy interpersonal boundaries and transforming interpersonal relationships which are mundanely wholesome/blameless.

You may be interested to read on Carl Rogers' person centred therapy (PCT) or approach (PCA), which stemmed out of phenomebology or existential philosophy and is widely regarded as the most humanistic.
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ceasing is manifest;
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chownah
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by chownah »

Bundokji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:29 pm One interpretation of DO is the mutual dependence of a child and his/her mother, resulting in attachments that are difficult to overcome in order to reach independence/adulthood, .
I've never heard of this.....can you bring a link to where this interpretation of DO is expressed?
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Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

dicsoncandra wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:27 am Some modern psychologists study on what they call 'trauma bonds', which they conclude to have stemmed from interpersonal relationship during chilhood that perpetuates cyclical patterns of abuse toward oneself/others during adulthood. You could refer to the.holistic.psychologist (Dr. Nicole LePera) on Instagram which became an internet sensation for explaining modern psychological concepts in simple terms. However, their approach diverges from the Buddhist path once they assume a Self to reconnect with. I personally sense a heavy emphasis on the idea that the primary caregivers (i.e., parents) are to blame for (i.e., the cause of) their dysfunction during adulthood, out of which the concept of 'reparenting' came about. Nonetheless, their goal seems to be about being in tune with oneself, setting healthy interpersonal boundaries and transforming interpersonal relationships which are mundanely wholesome/blameless.

You may be interested to read on Carl Rogers' person centred therapy (PCT) or approach (PCA), which stemmed out of phenomebology or existential philosophy and is widely regarded as the most humanistic.
Thank you for the interesting input. I will check the names you mentioned when i have time.

If we take caregivers as a "known territory" then the act of blaming is part of the bondage, or the fear of going beyond its boundaries. The known territory does not have to be the parents, but could also be interpreted as the socially constructed persona/ego, cause and effect, intentionality ... etc.

You could well argue that they assume a self to reconnect with, but the final product is a healed human being hence the concept of Anatta is of little use to their purposes, i guess.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

chownah wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:37 am I've never heard of this.....can you bring a link to where this interpretation of DO is expressed?
chownah
I do not know of a link/study that discusses them systematically. Freudians for example refer to the Oedipus complex to convey a dysfunctional state of affairs. In the Buddha's encounter with Mara, the later asked for a proof of liberation, and the Buddha chose the earth as his witness. In the psychological jargon of archetypes, earth is often referred to as "mother" earth.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
SteRo
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by SteRo »

Bundokji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:29 pm ... but the aspect i am interested in exploring are parallels between dependent origination, psychoanalysis, ...
"Dependent origination" is an exclusively buddhist tenet. "parallels" is just a self-deception due to seeking truth[s] when there is no criterion for truth[s].
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Dan74
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Dan74 »

Look into Pyrrhonism and the ancient commentaries on Plato's Theaetetus. The idea of Dependent Origination can be seen there too.
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Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

SteRo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:03 pm "Dependent origination" is an exclusively buddhist tenet. "parallels" is just a self-deception due to seeking truth[s] when there is no criterion for truth[s].
Connections to other Paths section of them forum allows for making parallels.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

Such themes can also be found in art. One example that comes to mind is Jim Carrey's movies " The Truman Show".

Psychoanalytic interpretation

An essay published in the International Journal of Psychoanalysis analyzed Truman as
[A] prototypical adolescent at the beginning of the movie. He feels trapped into a familial and social world to which he tries to conform while being unable to entirely identify with it, believing that he has no other choice (other than through the fantasy of fleeing to a far-way island). Eventually, Truman gains sufficient awareness of his condition to "leave home"—developing a more mature and authentic identity as an adult, leaving his child-self behind and becoming a True-man.[26]

Religious interpretation

Benson Y. Parkinson of the Association for Mormon Letters compared the megalomaniacal Hollywood producer Christof to Lucifer.[27] According to Parkinson, the conversation between Truman and Marlon at the bridge can be compared to one between Moses and God in the Book of Moses.[28]

In C.S. Lewis and Narnia for Dummies by Rich Wagner, Christof is compared with Screwtape, the eponymous character of the 1942 The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis.[29]
Similarity to Utopia

Parallels can be drawn from Thomas More's 1516 book Utopia, in which More describes an island with only one entrance and only one exit. Only those who belonged to this island knew how to navigate their way through the treacherous openings safely and unharmed. This situation is similar to The Truman Show because there are limited entryways into the world that Truman knows. Truman does not belong to this utopia into which he has been implanted, and childhood trauma rendered him frightened of the prospect of ever leaving this small community. Utopian models of the past tended to be full of like-minded individuals who shared much in common, comparable to More's Utopia and real-life groups such as the Shakers and the Oneida Community.[30] It is clear that the people in Truman's world are like-minded in their common effort to keep him oblivious to reality. The suburban "picket fence" appearance of the show's set is reminiscent of the "American Dream" of the 1950s. The "American Dream" concept in Truman's world serves as an attempt to keep him happy and ignorant.[30]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truman_Show
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by SteRo »

Bundokji wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:35 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:03 pm "Dependent origination" is an exclusively buddhist tenet. "parallels" is just a self-deception due to seeking truth[s] when there is no criterion for truth[s].
Connections to other Paths section of them forum allows for making parallels.
"making parallels" = "fabricating parallels in thought" ... of course. But for one who does not believe buddhism to represent universal truth that encompasses everthing else it's natural to reject parallels between apples and oranges.
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Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

SteRo wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:00 pm "making parallels" = "fabricating parallels in thought" ... of course. But for one who does not believe buddhism to represent universal truth that encompasses everthing else it's natural to reject parallels between apples and oranges.
Still ... Connections to other Paths section of them forum allows for making parallels. :popcorn:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by SteRo »

Bundokji wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:13 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:00 pm "making parallels" = "fabricating parallels in thought" ... of course. But for one who does not believe buddhism to represent universal truth that encompasses everthing else it's natural to reject parallels between apples and oranges.
Still ... Connections to other Paths section of them forum allows for making parallels. :popcorn:
:shrug: This forum section appeals to users to express their fabrications.
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Bundokji
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Re: The dhamma and modern psychology

Post by Bundokji »

SteRo wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:16 pm
Bundokji wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:13 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:00 pm "making parallels" = "fabricating parallels in thought" ... of course. But for one who does not believe buddhism to represent universal truth that encompasses everthing else it's natural to reject parallels between apples and oranges.
Still ... Connections to other Paths section of them forum allows for making parallels. :popcorn:
:shrug: This forum section appeals to users to express their fabrications.
What you seem to overlook is that "Dependent origination" as an exclusively buddhist tenet cannot be proven/established independently from other doctrines. This forms the basis for comparing/contrasting tenets with other doctrines.

If you disagree, then please explain how do you know that DO is an exclusively Buddhist tenet and has no universal applications to it?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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