Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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devaloka
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Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by devaloka »

Whats your view on the so called Left Hand Practices such as psychedelic / deliriant drug use and stuff like astral projection, kasina meditation, witchcraft, chakras, zen koans, the occult and acquisition of Siddhi . Do you think such practices can be helpful in gaining insight or create better conditions for development of insight and are worthy things to pursue as in being beneficial for walking the path?

Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;
Nibbàna is, but not the man who enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen
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cappuccino
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by cappuccino »

Just say no
devaloka
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by devaloka »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:18 am Just say no
but theyre cool :weep:

Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;
Nibbàna is, but not the man who enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen
SarathW
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by SarathW »

devaloka wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:56 am Whats your view on the so called Left Hand Practices such as psychedelic / deliriant drug use and stuff like astral projection, kasina meditation, witchcraft, chakras, zen koans, the occult and acquisition of Siddhi . Do you think such practices can be helpful in gaining insight or create better conditions for development of insight and are worthy things to pursue as in being beneficial for walking the path?
In my opinion, the highlighted are unwholesome as they can harm you or someone else.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
dharmacorps
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by dharmacorps »

I explored many traditions before settling on Theravada, and I can definitely say that while interesting stylistically ("cool") and appealing in some ways intellectually, LHP/occult aren't spiritually beneficial and lead nowhere but to befuddlement. The Buddha's path is the middle (neither LHP or RHP) and addresses directly the way to end suffering bypassing what is cool or not.

If you want to do drugs, do rituals, and other new age/occult practices, that's fine but it will put you off the path described by the Buddha. The pali canon is replete with rejections of drug use/abuse, rites/rituals of wrong intention, and magic/occult practices. Life is short.
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SDC
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by SDC »

The experience of psychedelics is sensual. Always sensual. The Buddha describes sensuality as dangerous because it establishes the experience in a “place” that is subject to destruction. Whatever you find there will eventually fall apart. If you die wanting to be there, you’ll be there again. Drugs are “fun”. They can present an arrangement of the senses in unique and unexpected ways, but the novelty quickly fades as the experience leaves behind nothing but imagery. Imagery of mangled senses that for those brief moments offered a new escape. But imagine you’re trapped in a cave and you come upon a cool tunnel that you’ve never seen before. It goes in a direction that is unique. The air is fresh and there’s more light than ever before. Yet when you reach the end, turns out it was a big loop that put you right back where you started. Cool for those moments, but ultimately didn’t get you anywhere.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by Coëmgenu »

devaloka wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:56 am Whats your view on the so called Left Hand Practices such as psychedelic / deliriant drug use and stuff like astral projection, kasina meditation, witchcraft, chakras, zen koans, the occult and acquisition of Siddhi . Do you think such practices can be helpful in gaining insight or create better conditions for development of insight and are worthy things to pursue as in being beneficial for walking the path?
Why is kasina meditation occult to you? What kasinas are you thinking of? Or are you thinking about stories like the founder of Wat Dhammakāya having so powerful a concentration on the fire kasina that he nearly burned a Wat down that he was training at?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
mabw
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by mabw »

Coëmgenu wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:56 am
Also nothing left hand with zen koans.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Vamachara / Left Hand Path and the Occult

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

mabw wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:46 am
Coëmgenu wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:56 am
Also nothing left hand with zen koans.
But they often degenerate into head talking Zen, that is, firing zen bon mots back & forth while seeking to impress others.

The essential first step on any path worth its salt is ethics, harmlessness, virtue.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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