Theravada view vs secular view on killing

[Bundokji]

So basically anything bad that happens to a person is their own fault.
Abused children is their own fault?

In the one life model where both the secular view and orthodox view apply, this is not evident. Same thing can be said about the value of life itself. In the one life model, life has value hence killing is wrong. From the endless cycle of birth and death POV, life has no value except when utilized to escape the vicious cycle, but killing remains wrong as it increases the odds of getting stuck and violates the underlying assumption of the one life model that it has a value to be protected.

[Zenny]

So basically anything bad that happens to a person is their own fault.
Abused children is their own fault?

In the one life model where both the secular view and orthodox view apply, this is not evident. Same thing can be said about the value of life itself. In the one life model, life has value hence killing is wrong. From the endless cycle of birth and death POV, life has no value except when utilized to escape the vicious cycle, but killing remains wrong as it increases the odds of getting stuck and violates the underlying assumption of the one life model that it has a value to be protected.

This doesn't answer the question.
In your model are abused children to blame?
And the two models you refer to are not thd only "models".
What about the abrahamic models?
One judgement only,then eternal life or punishment.
And children are not blamed for their own abuse.

[Bundokji]

This doesn't answer the question.

I think it does, but if you do not like the answer or find unconvincing, then that is fine.

In your model are abused children to blame?

This thread is not about child abuse, and when kamma is discussed, to the extent it is relevant to discuss and explain different views on killing.

And the two models you refer to are not thd only "models".

They are the models as per Theravada view vs secular view.

What about the abrahamic models?

They are irrelevant to discussing Theravada view vs Secular view on killing. If you want to open a new thread discussing that, go ahead.

And children are not blamed for their own abuse.

Again

[Zenny]

This doesn't answer the question.

I think it does, but if you do not like the answer or find unconvincing, then that is fine.

In your model are abused children to blame?

This thread is not about child abuse, and when kamma is discussed, to the extent it is relevant to discuss and explain different views on killing.

And the two models you refer to are not thd only "models".

They are the models as per Theravada view vs secular view.

What about the abrahamic models?

They are irrelevant to discussing Theravada view vs Secular view on killing. If you want to open a new thread discussing that, go ahead.

And children are not blamed for their own abuse.

Again

Your answer is not only unconvincing,it doesn't answer any of the pertinent issues raised.

[cappuccino]

In your model are abused children to blame?

you can't figure out karma


you can say karma is a factor in life

[Zenny]

In your model are abused children to blame?

you can't figure out karma


you can say karma is a factor in life

Of course Karma can be figured out.
You think if you murdered someone you wouldn't know about it?
All I see is excuses,and a moral relativism.

[cappuccino]

Of course Karma can be figured out.

we know this:

"Monks, the taking of life — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from the taking of life is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to a short life span."

Vipaka Sutta

[Zenny]

Of course Karma can be figured out.

we know this:

"Monks, the taking of life — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from the taking of life is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to a short life span."

Vipaka Sutta

So those with a short life span are klillers?
And are you going to reply to are children responsible for their abuse?

[cappuccino]

So those with a short life span are klillers?
And are you going to reply to are children responsible for their abuse?

figure it out if you think it's possible


I would just say karma is a factor in life

[Zenny]

So those with a short life span are klillers?
And are you going to reply to are children responsible for their abuse?

figure it out if you think it's possible


I would just say karma is a factor in life

I already know. I'm asking you.
You are remaining silent on the issue of abused children's blame.
That is immoral or ignorant.

[cappuccino]

I already know. I'm asking you.

scio me nihil scire

[Zenny]

I already know. I'm asking you.

scio me nihil scire

Except you seem to know karma is a factor and many other things.

[cappuccino]

Except you seem to know karma is a factor and many other things.

you start or progress by realizing your ignorance


then you take a step to remedy it


this is difficult and (almost) never ending

[Zenny]

Except you seem to know karma is a factor and many other things.

you start or progress by realizing your ignorance


then you take a step to remedy it


this is difficult and (almost) never ending

How about starting from from basic certainties instead?

[cappuccino]

How about starting from basic certainties instead?

Four Noble Truths