Theravada view vs secular view on killing

[cappuccino]

And what if … the elder deserves the insult?

[asahi]

My understanding is , Intentional action has an effect , when n how its result ripens that we dont know . Then there are other factors involves . If you plant a seed sometimes it does not get to grow n bear fruits due to lack of proper conditions . A bad quality seed or of lower grade seed mostly produce corresponding poor quality fruit . A good quality seed may resulted in poor harvest if conditions turns bad but the fruit normally turn out to be of a better quality . There are primary cause n condition and there are secondary n subsequent cause n condition .

[Zenny]

My understanding is , Intentional action has an effect , when n how its result ripens that we dont know . Then there are other factors involves . If you plant a seed sometimes it does not get to grow n bear fruits due to lack of proper conditions . A bad quality seed or of lower grade seed mostly produce corresponding poor quality fruit . A good quality seed may resulted in poor harvest if conditions turns bad but the fruit normally turn out to be of a better quality . There are primary cause n condition and there are secondary n subsequent cause n condition .

But you see in this thread how karma is being used to justify the caste system?

[Zenny]

And what if … the elder deserves the insult?

Watch your karma with that computer mate!

[Coëmgenu]

Follow the thread and you will see.
So children born in difficulties are sinners in some way from past Karma?

Are you talking about this exchange?

In the orthodox view, more attention is often paid to the vipaka of the killer. The act of killing is associated with being reborn in lower realms either in this life (ending up in jail or capital punishment) or the next.

How about the victim? If being killed is a vipaka for past action, would that enhance the chances of being reborn in a higher realm? this should provide some consolation to the family of the victim (in case of humans). More often than not, punishment of the wrong doer serves to ease the anger of the victims.

So,if a person is killed its a cleansing for past Karma? An opportunity for rebirth in a better realm?
How can you learn from Karma if you can't even remember your alleged past crimes?

So basically anything bad that happens to a person is their own fault.
Abused children is their own fault?

And then it gets into them being murderers possibly?

Or are you talking about something Cappuccino said?

[Zenny]

Follow the thread and you will see.
So children born in difficulties are sinners in some way from past Karma?

Are you talking about this exchange?

So,if a person is killed its a cleansing for past Karma? An opportunity for rebirth in a better realm?
How can you learn from Karma if you can't even remember your alleged past crimes?

So basically anything bad that happens to a person is their own fault.
Abused children is their own fault?

And then it gets into them being murderers possibly?

Or are you talking about something Cappuccino said?

The above was what I was talking about in the main.
What do you make of it?
Plus,note the justification of the caste system from this interpretation of karma.

[asahi]

Under most circumstances , the status of rich n powerful are of higher class in society in present life but how it arrives in such state could be influenced by many previous or many past factors n conditions whether the factors are of past life or present life .

[Zenny]

Under most circumstances , the status of rich n powerful are of higher class in society in present life but how it arrives in such state could be influenced by many previous or many past factors n conditions whether the factors are of past life or present life .

And it's being used to support the caste system.

[Zenny]

the caste system.

I think it was a metaphor


however, now literal

So you agree with the caste system?

[cappuccino]

So you agree with the caste system?

I try to avoid thinking about the world and its problems

[Zenny]

So you agree with the caste system?

I try to avoid thinking about the world and its problems

Don't you realise with you justifying the caste system you are part of the problem?

[Bundokji]

The children can't have committed a past life deed unless they can travel through time and lives. IMO, it is a mistake to attribute moral culpability for particular former karma to people who suffer in the here and now.

I think this is relevant to the relationship between the moral and the legal. The legal is more concerned with assigning responsibility than the moral. Take capital punishment as an example, an eye for an eye is more of a legal concept than a moral one, and opposing capital punishment is more likely to be based on moral ground than on legal ground. Another aspect is the possibility of getting away with bad deeds. Most murderers or bad doers would go into lengths to hide their bad actions, but they are using the legal mindset rather than the moral one.

This can bring us to another distinction between moral action and intentional action. Not all intentional actions are necessarily moral unless being framed as such. The simple action of drinking water for example is largely amoral, unless we begin to think of the moral consequences of drinking water.

[Coëmgenu]

So is the fact that the children oughtn't be held responsible for deeds committed before their birth "moral" or "legal" to you?

[Bundokji]

So is the fact that the children oughtn't be held responsible for deeds committed before their birth "moral" or "legal" to you?

To me, the legal question does not arise as it necessitates self continuity to assign responsibility which is contingent to one life model . As for the moral question, holding someone else responsible has no bearing on the value of moral action

[Coëmgenu]

I took "moral" here on terms of "if someone is morally responsible." Certainly, anyone can wrongly attribute responsibility, but they attribute it nonetheless, rightly or wrongly.