Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Right
7
17%
Wrong
34
83%
 
Total votes: 41

asahi
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by asahi »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:50 pm That doesn’t change the epistemological problem. You can’t know that universe is infinite or not. If you say it’s infinite it’s possible you haven’t seen the edge. If you say it’s finite it’s possible you haven’t seen far enough. To say that Nibbana is something which exists forever, how can that be said? Perhaps it’s because you don’t yet see the end.
As i said , the ceasing of the six sense bases has to take place first before anything going to happen . Otherwise we would end up in conjecturing . To use another kind of phrase , "Otherness" happens once "you" or the "i" are gone .
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cappuccino
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:14 pm How would one know that it never arose and never ceases?
It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nibbæna, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

asahi wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 pm ...
Not really , the false self never exists .
There is no True-self can be said . You only assume there is a false self first and in comparison to it to suggest the opposite ie the True-self .


I formulated the question with the perspective that True-Self = Self. For example, asahi is no different from True-asahi; it cannot be said so for False-asahi.

Anyway, the False-self exists, like this:
    • perversion of perception in taking not-self as self

      perversion of mind in taking not-self as self

      perversion of view in taking not-self as self
AN 4.49.

:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
Dweller
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by Dweller »

Any kind of speculation and view about the nature and existence of the self is best to be abandoned.

What is advised is not to identify anyting with the self.

Abandoning self-view is not meant to include only one version of it but all of them.
Ontheway
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by Ontheway »

Sabbe Dhammā Anattā'ti
The answer is clear: Wrong

Nibbāna isn't "Self".
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
asahi
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by asahi »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:14 am
asahi wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 pm ...
Not really , the false self never exists .
There is no True-self can be said . You only assume there is a false self first and in comparison to it to suggest the opposite ie the True-self .


I formulated the question with the perspective that True-Self = Self. For example, asahi is no different from True-asahi; it cannot be said so for False-asahi.

Anyway, the False-self exists, like this:
    • perversion of perception in taking not-self as self

      perversion of mind in taking not-self as self

      perversion of view in taking not-self as self
AN 4.49.

:heart:
What exists is not the false self .
What exists is the false perception led to thinking that there is a self . :quote:
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

asahi wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:01 pm .
.
What exists is not the false self .
Well ... Ok.


asahi wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:01 pm .
.
What exists is the false perception led to thinking that there is a self . :quote:
I think I agree. :thumbsup:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
SteRo
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Re: Poll: According to Buddha's teachings, is it right to say: "Nibbāna is true self." ?

Post by SteRo »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:48 am Referring to this :
circuit wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:26 am ...
Nibbāna = True Self.
...
Only Nibbāna is the true self.
...
When let go all, Nibbāna is true self.
...
All beings are interconnected. Nibbāna is the All Pervading Reality.
...
:heart:
It is justified to equate nibbana and 'true self' due to of the same evidence (i.e. lack of evidence) these two phenomena are based on. However "Only Nibbāna is the true self. " does not apply because many concepts are known that lack evidence.
"When let go all, Nibbāna is true self. " sounds like esoteric gibberish ... and in addition "When let go all" sounds like a condition which contradicts the doctrinal "conditionless" or "unconditioned". So nibbana should be independent of "let go all".
"All beings are interconnected." might apply to ignorance: all beings are interconnected and ignorance is what connects them.
"Nibbāna is the All Pervading Reality." might be compatible with the doctrinally "unconditioned" nibbana.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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