Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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alicem
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Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by alicem »

Can devotional practices to the Buddhas in the Mahayana canon (Mahavairocana, Amitabha, Akṣobhya, etc.) lead to the same merit as devotion to the 29 Buddhas of the Nikayas, or would there be lesser or even no merit at all? I've never seen Theravadin teachers address the issue of the Mahayana pantheon, even though the two would've often came across each other.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Alice,

I imagine that if one believed that these fictional Mahayana Buddhas were real, then it would have the same mental impact as if they were real.

But once you know they're not, the practice would become a fraud. This may be why Theravadins don't mention it, because what would be the point?

I'd recommend sticking to the real deal.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
TRobinson465
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by TRobinson465 »

If they arent real i'd say probably not, in the same way worshipping Shiva, Jehovah and Zeus would not generate any merit. Although since these are "Buddhas" and you are worshipping something that at least resembles something real that is meritorious to pay homage to, i think its certainly possible you would get some merit from it because your mind is sorta being focused on Buddha's, albeit non-historical ones.

I remember reading a text that a frog who simply listened to the Buddha with absolutely no understanding of what he was saying at all still earned merit from it. So perhaps worshipping what would be considered fictional Buddhas would have some merit since it fixates your mind on something tangentially related to real ones, possibly....
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
4GreatHeavenlyKings
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by 4GreatHeavenlyKings »

TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:08 am So perhaps worshipping what would be considered fictional Buddhas would have some merit since it fixates your mind on something tangentially related to real ones, possibly....
I think that Mahayana Buddhism has value insofar as it often support genuinely Buddhist ideas, and if nothing else encourages devotion to Buddhas and avoiding common wrong views (such as that an uncreated creator god exists).
TRobinson465
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by TRobinson465 »

4GreatHeavenlyKings wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:42 pm
TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:08 am So perhaps worshipping what would be considered fictional Buddhas would have some merit since it fixates your mind on something tangentially related to real ones, possibly....
I think that Mahayana Buddhism has value insofar as it often support genuinely Buddhist ideas, and if nothing else encourages devotion to Buddhas and avoiding common wrong views (such as that an uncreated creator god exists).
Yes I agree. Mahayana Buddhism is certainly "more right" than most other religions so I do think it has great value to society. I don't think it's healthy for Theravada Buddhists to have a conservative evangelical Christian mindset where they believe thier particular form of Christianity only is right and everyone else's is wrong and is going to burn in hell for eternity. The prevalence of such evangelical thinking is probably the biggest thing "wrong" with Theravada Buddhism. It's especially a problem among Theravada online where they have these very similar mindsets as evangelical Christians, except for the part about everyone else burning in hell for eternity.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Spiny Norman
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by Spiny Norman »

alicem wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:28 pm Can devotional practices to the Buddhas in the Mahayana canon (Mahavairocana, Amitabha, Akṣobhya, etc.) lead to the same merit as devotion to the 29 Buddhas of the Nikayas, or would there be lesser or even no merit at all? I've never seen Theravadin teachers address the issue of the Mahayana pantheon, even though the two would've often came across each other.
Devotion is a valid practice, but IMO it needs to be based on a intuitive connection, rather than on belief and dogma.
I used to have a strong connection with Tara, which has since been replaced with a strong connection to a natural world of seals, porpoises and cormorants.
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Jack19990101
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by Jack19990101 »

I would think yes.
Devotion to higher beings or higher realms, lifts our mind up away from human greed, ill-will and aggression.
It is lots of merit to be in a state liberated of those heavy dark forces.

I am not fully certain pure devotion to a realm or beings, would liberate us fully though.
Ontheway
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by Ontheway »

How can one have faith or confidence towards something that you know it is fake?

Wasn't that a sugar-coated delusion...
:shrug:
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SteRo
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by SteRo »

Is there any merit in what people call "merit"? Having asked that this question needs to be questioned: Is there anything (objectively) at all that might be the basis for labelling "merit". If the answer to the latter question is "yes" is it material or mental? Either material or mental ... is it permanent or impermanent? :shrug:
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SarathW
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by SarathW »

I think devotion is about establishing confidence in something or someone.
Some Sri Lankan taxi drivers worship the steering wheel first thing in the morning before they start the car.
Perhaps it is a sort of a concentration exercise reminding yourself that you are taking some responsibility for lives depending on your action.
In the same way, what matters is what you are doing after establishing that confidence.
Some people go and blow them up and others after the devotion.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Is there any merit in Mahayana devotion?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Yes.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
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