īśopaniṣad

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ceisiwr
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īśopaniṣad

Post by Ceisiwr »

Thought I would share some interesting verses from the Isha Upanishad that I read today, regarding ignorance vs knowledge & becoming vs non-becoming.
9 Into blind darkness they enter,
people who worship ignorance;
And into still blinder darkness,
people who delight in learning.

10 It's far different from knowledge, they say,
Different also from ignorance, we're told—
so have we heard from wise men,
who have explained it to us.

11 Knowledge and ignorance—
a man who knows them both together,
Passes beyond death by ignorance,
and by knowledge attains immortality.

12 Into blind darkness they enter,
people who worship non-becoming;
And into still blinder darkness,
people who delight in becoming.

13 It's far different from coming-into-being, they say,
Different also from not coming-into-being, we're told-
so have we heard from wise men,
who have explained it all to us.

14 The becoming and the destruction—
a man who knows them both together;
Passes beyond death by the destruction,
and by the becoming attains immortality.
I think Theravāda would agree up to stanza 14. The text also has an almost Prajñāpāramitā feel to it too IMO.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
Mr. Seek
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Re: īśopaniṣad

Post by Mr. Seek »

Foregoing both? I think, yeah, you can view it like that. It's like SN 1.1, where the Buddha describes crossing over the flood by neither moving nor staying in place.
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cappuccino
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Re: īśopaniṣad

Post by cappuccino »

the truth is grey


both black and white


neither black or white
josaphatbarlaam
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Re: īśopaniṣad

Post by josaphatbarlaam »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:43 am Thought I would share some interesting verses from the Isha Upanishad that I read today, regarding ignorance vs knowledge & becoming vs non-becoming.
Hmmm....becoming and non-becoming....in the upanishads? Wait a minute....
14 The becoming and the destruction—
a man who knows them both together;
Passes beyond death by the destruction,
and by the becoming attains immortality.
I found another translation online:

14. Whoever understands the manifest and the unmanifest as going together, (he), by overcoming death through the manifest, attains immortality through the unmanifest

Makes a billion times more sense in the context of the upanishads, and in general to be honest.
https://www.hinduismfacts.org/hindu-scr ... d/#Verse-9

9. Into blinding darkness pass they who adhere to karma and into still greater darkness, as it were, they who delight in meditation.

10. Distinct, they say, is (the fruit borne) by meditation and distinct again, they say, is (that borne) by karma. Thus have we heard from sages who taught us that.

11. Whoever understands meditation and karma as going together, (he) overcoming death through karma, attains immortality through meditation.

12. Into blinding darkness pass they who are devoted to the unmanifest, and into still greater darkness, as it were, they who delight in the manifest

13. Distinct, they say, is (what results) from the manifest and distinct again, they say, is (what results) from the unmanifest. Thus have we heard from the sages who taught us that.

14. Whoever understands the manifest and the unmanifest as going together, (he), by overcoming death through the manifest, attains immortality through the unmanifest
I think ultimately he means by overcoming death while in the physical body (or perhaps through the embodied soul, because the manifest means the part of God manifest in the world as opposed to the part remaining unmanifest and outside the world) one becomes part of the unmanifest. That the manifest soul transitions back into the unmanifest by conquering lust for the physical world.
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