Jesus the Messiah and Buddha

[Ontheway]

True. See newcomer Shlaymun's detailed post above.

Somewhere, on a Christian forum, someone is confidently pointing out that the Buddha recognised that people have selves because he said (in a really popular and early text, and I can even show you the Pali!) that we should be a light unto our selves.

That is the teaching of early Buddhism Puggalavada.

Yes, my point was that on the imaginary Christian forum, there would be few other posters around who knew about that. Do you see the parallel here?

I can see what you tried to say.
But really, sometimes things aren't that complicated.

That 'poster' can keep arguing that Buddha is teaching "Soul", but people can always go back to the Pāli Tipitaka (or EBTs if he rejects Pali Tipitaka) and find the opposite is true. So is Christianity. People can argued that "God is all loving", "God allows and supports LGBTQ", "God loves you no matter what you did", but the Bible clearly stated the other way.

Well, talking about Christianity reminds me of the days back then, I took up Bible study course and our class focused on the Gospel of John and Acts of the Apostles, examinations prepared by the clergys... And back then, my favourite is Proverbs and the Book of Revelation. I was borderline Christian (I did not acquire full confidence in Buddha yet that time) and almost converted. But, things changed when I read "On the Origin of Species" by Darwin and "The God Delusion" by Dawkins.

If we just choose to be honest and not to be too smart to deceive ourselves with what we want to believe...

[cappuccino]

That 'poster' can keep arguing that Buddha is teaching "Soul", but people can always go back to the Pāli Tipitaka and find the opposite is true.

really?


then find a quote (from Buddha) about no soul


you can't

[cappuccino]

But, things changed when I read "On the Origin of Species" by Darwin and "The God Delusion" by Dawkins.

species may evolve but


there is evidence for extreme human antiquity


Michael Cremo

[Ontheway]

That 'poster' can keep arguing that Buddha is teaching "Soul", but people can always go back to the Pāli Tipitaka and find the opposite is true.

really?


then find a quote (from Buddha) about no soul


you can't

The view of "Self" is to be rejected. It is a wrong view. As long as we don't uproot this pernicious view, we can't possibly hope to attain Sotapanna Phala.

Mogharaja-manava-puccha (Sn 5.15)

The Venerable Mogharaja:

"Twice have I asked Sakka but the Seeing One has not answered me. I have heard a divine sage replies when asked a third time. I do not know the view of the greatly famous Gotama concerning this world, the next world and the Brahma-world with its deities. To him of supreme vision I have come with a question: how should one regard the world so that one is not seen by the King of Death?"

The Lord:

"Look upon the world as empty,[2] Mogharaja, ever mindful; uprooting the view of self you may thus be one who overcomes death. So regarding the world one is not seen by the King of Death."

[cappuccino]

The view of "Self" is to be rejected. It is a wrong view.

soul… isn't the same as self

[Ontheway]

The view of "Self" is to be rejected. It is a wrong view. As long as we don't uproot this pernicious view, we can't possibly hope to attain Sotapanna Phala.

soul… isn't the same as self


only dependent arising is necessary for stream entry

If you wish to discuss this matter, can start a new thread in General Theravada Forum so that others can join too. Here is mainly Christianity and Buddhism.

[cappuccino]

Here is mainly Christianity and Buddhism.

I'm both

[Coëmgenu]

A perfect and all-powerful God could. Free will isn't that important when we're talking about everlasting eternal torment. That's the central issue. People's free wills should have been perfectly made, so that they don't "send themselves" to hell.

[cappuccino]

People's free wills should have been perfectly made, so that they don't "send themselves" to hell.

They Are Perfectly Stubborn

Game of Thrones 5x01, Mance Rayder refuses to bend the knee

[Ceisiwr]

A perfect and all-powerful God could. Free will isn't that important when we're talking about everlasting eternal torment. That's the central issue. People's free wills should have been perfectly made, so that they don't "send themselves" to hell.

I did read some Christian theology which viewed this in terms of the damned being there because of continuously turning their back on God and for never really being sorry. Can’t remember if it’s Catholic or from some other denomination.

[Ceisiwr]

Regarding Universalism, it does have precedent doesn’t it? Wasn’t that what Origen taught?

[Ceisiwr]

Also an obligatory Monty Python reference

[cappuccino]

Also an obligatory Monty Python reference

[Coëmgenu]

A perfect and all-powerful God could. Free will isn't that important when we're talking about everlasting eternal torment. That's the central issue. People's free wills should have been perfectly made, so that they don't "send themselves" to hell.

I did read some Christian theology which viewed this in terms of the damned being there because of continuously turning their back on God and for never really being sorry. Can’t remember if it’s Catholic or from some other denomination.

A theologoumenon of the Eastern Orthodox is that the flames of hell are none other than the flames of God's "burning" love. The saints who have prepared by living the holy life in this life experience the flames as bliss. The damned suffer on account of them, unable to accept God's sovereign love due to self-hatred and hatred of their heavenly father. It's not particularly better IMO. I'd just not have "burning" love if it were up to me. I'm not God, so .

[cappuccino]

Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb.

Yodhajiva Sutta