Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

Rambutan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:35 pm Actually, it is precisely because there is no self (atman) that …
Such is not the teaching
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

But because there isn't even this much form that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity, this living of the holy life for the right ending of suffering & stress is discerned.

"There isn't even this much feeling...

"There isn't even this much perception...

"There aren't even this many fabrications...

"There isn't even this much consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity. If there were …


Nakhasikha Sutta: The Tip of the Fingernail
User avatar
Rambutan
Posts: 753
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Rambutan »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:50 pm
Rambutan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:35 pm You still haven’t said where this “self” is.
I don’t say there is a self
cappuccino wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:21 pm If there's no self, what experiences the results of kamma and takes rebirth?
Sorry. It. It’s have been the other cappuccino
User avatar
Rambutan
Posts: 753
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Rambutan »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:04 pm But because there isn't even this much form that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity, this living of the holy life for the right ending of suffering & stress is discerned.

"There isn't even this much feeling...

"There isn't even this much perception...

"There aren't even this many fabrications...

"There isn't even this much consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity. If there were …


Nakhasikha Sutta: The Tip of the Fingernail
so what’s your point here? Again, no atman.
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

Rambutan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:45 pm so what’s your point here? Again, no atman.
Your focus is on self but there is more to the teaching
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Ontheway »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:04 pm But because there isn't even this much form that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity, this living of the holy life for the right ending of suffering & stress is discerned.

"There isn't even this much feeling...

"There isn't even this much perception...

"There aren't even this many fabrications...

"There isn't even this much consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity. If there were …


Nakhasikha Sutta: The Tip of the Fingernail
You distorted the Sutta's meaning...

The Buddha clearly mentioned that even if there is a little thing considered constant, lasting, .... , that will make holy life impossible. And this statement again supported Anatta, where there is nothing in the world found to be constant, lasting, ...., eternity.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:02 am You distorted the Sutta's meaning…
No one has distorted its meaning
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Ontheway »

Read the whole passage, don't cherry picking.

Cherry picking people are as if shamelessly regard a cat as a tiger, a jackal as lion, a lizard as iguana, based on superficial observation but not the whole picture.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

:candle:
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Ontheway »

Learn what? Christianity? Been there, I even took a Biblical study class programme in the past. And it is not helpful for me to understand and pursue peace.

Or some whacky "universal interconnectedness with bigger Universal Soul" or "One with the Universe"? Nope, no thanks. It is just misleading and close to delusion.

Now these people often bring up the Buddhist scriptures to justify their beliefs, such as the belief of "Soul", the belief of "killing is good", etc... Seriously, none of these concepts are found in Buddhism, and don't even think that Lord Buddha agreed with these ideas.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:52 am to justify their beliefs, such as the belief of "Soul"
I simply do not reject the idea
pegembara
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by pegembara »

Ontheway wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:02 am
The Buddha clearly mentioned that even if there is a little thing considered constant, lasting, .... , that will make holy life impossible. And this statement again supported Anatta, where there is nothing in the world found to be constant, lasting, ...., eternity.
Just to point out. There is the conditioned and there is the unconditioned.
“There is, bhikkhus, a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned. If, bhikkhus, there were no not-born, not-brought-to-being, not-made, not-conditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned. But since there is a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned, therefore an escape is discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned.”

The born, come-to-be, produced,
The made, the conditioned, the transient,
Conjoined with decay and death,
A nest of disease, perishable,
Sprung from nutriment and craving’s cord—
That is not fit to take delight in.

The escape from that, the peaceful,
Beyond reasoning, everlasting,
The not-born, the unproduced,
The sorrowless state that is void of stain,
The cessation of states linked to suffering,
The stilling of the conditioned—bliss.
https://suttacentral.net/iti43/en/ireland
"And what is the noble search? There is the case where a person, himself being subject to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, seeks the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Himself being subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeks the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, undefiled, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. This is the noble search.
Like Oil and Water
The heart knowing the Dhamma
of ultimate ease
sees for sure that the khandhas
are always stressful.
The Dhamma stays as the Dhamma,
the khandhas stay as the khandhas, that’s all.

~ Ajahn Mun, The Ballad of Liberation from the Five Khandhas
(translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu)
https://www.lionsroar.com/like-oil-and-water/
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
User avatar
Rambutan
Posts: 753
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Rambutan »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:11 pm
Ontheway wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:52 am to justify their beliefs, such as the belief of "Soul"
I simply do not reject the idea
That’s fine.
There’s no reason why you should.
But it’s a mistake to interpret and try to use Buddhist teachings to support the idea of a soul.
Advaita doctrine is probably a better fit for you.
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by Goofaholix »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:11 pm I simply do not reject the idea
If that is simply the case then not a problem. The trouble is when people say that they often mean "I want to be free to speculate about it, to interweave ideas about it (that weren't previously there) into Buddhist teachings and practise, and/or to maintain clinging to my own sense of self".

Its not so much the idea that needs to be rejected but the felt sense of it that rises from experience, if you don't have the felt sense the idea seems irrelevant.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Advaita seeks Atman, Buddhism seeks anatman, right?

Post by cappuccino »

Goofaholix wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:29 am The trouble is when people say that they often mean …
I know I don’t know
Post Reply