What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Laurens
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by Laurens »

notself wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Within Buddhism, in general, "momentariness" - khan.a - is a doctrine of instaneous change. This was not taught in the suttas or even the Abhidhamma Pitaka texts. It is something that got introduced into the Theravada with Buddhaghosa about 1,000 years after the Buddha's death. As has been pointed out anicca and khan.a are not doctrinal synonyms. This comes out of the later idea of dhammas being little atomy thingies which led to the idea of dhammas instaneously popping into and out of existence, which is momentariness, khan.a. Anicca is not described that way in the suttas.
Sounds a bit like quantum physics.
I am a bit weary of people trying to use quantum mechanics as proof of their religion, for the following reason:

"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics"

;)
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
notself
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by notself »

Laurens wrote:
notself wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Within Buddhism, in general, "momentariness" - khan.a - is a doctrine of instaneous change. This was not taught in the suttas or even the Abhidhamma Pitaka texts. It is something that got introduced into the Theravada with Buddhaghosa about 1,000 years after the Buddha's death. As has been pointed out anicca and khan.a are not doctrinal synonyms. This comes out of the later idea of dhammas being little atomy thingies which led to the idea of dhammas instaneously popping into and out of existence, which is momentariness, khan.a. Anicca is not described that way in the suttas.
Sounds a bit like quantum physics.
I am a bit weary of people trying to use quantum mechanics as proof of their religion, for the following reason:

"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics"

;)
I was just comparing the definition of momentariness with one aspect of quantum physics. I even put the definition of momentariness in bold so it should have been clear that my comment was not an attempt to prove anything about Buddhism. I am sorry you took it to mean anything else.
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103
Paññāsikhara
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by Paññāsikhara »

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Laurens wrote:I have a distinct sense that he would roll his eyes at sights such as this:
[statue pic]
For a lot of people, Buddha is God, perhaps not fulfilling the role of creator, but fulfilling the role of saviour. I think this is something the Buddha would be displeased with.
Roll his eyes? I think he would be quite displeased and disappointed, since the whole emphasis of his teaching for forty years was DIY and here we see people relapsing into reliance on higher authority and salvation from above.
On the other hand, I doubt that he would be surprised. He must have had hundreds of people coming to listen to him in the hope of a magical revelation that would make everything all right without any effort on their own part.
Sigh.

:namaste:
Kim
I disagree that the Buddha would be "displeased" or "disappointed" at all. Seems rather that he would take it all with equanimity, neither rolling his eyes, nor otherwise. He sees the capabilities of people, and expects nothing in the end.
And I also think that he would not have much of a problem with people making images or the like. After all, at the time of his parinibbana, he was content to have the lay people make stupas to enshrine his relics, while the renunciants continued their inner practice. Those lay people would thus sow positive seeds, and have further opportunity to learn and practice the Dhamma in the future. Nothing to roll one's eyes over.

But, and this is the ironic thing I feel, the idea of the Buddha being "displeased" sounds more like something from the Old Testament, a wrathful and jealous God! Is there much difference between looking at the Buddha as a savior God than looking at him as a displeased God? Or is this all just about Protestant Buddhism after all?
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Kim OHara
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by Kim OHara »

Paññāsikhara wrote: I disagree that the Buddha would be "displeased" or "disappointed" at all. Seems rather that he would take it all with equanimity, neither rolling his eyes, nor otherwise. He sees the capabilities of people, and expects nothing in the end.
...
But, and this is the ironic thing I feel, the idea of the Buddha being "displeased" sounds more like something from the Old Testament, a wrathful and jealous God! Is there much difference between looking at the Buddha as a savior God than looking at him as a displeased God? Or is this all just about Protestant Buddhism after all?
Greetings, Pannasikhara,
My thoughts, projected onto the Buddha, were nothing to do with a God - wrathful, jealous, old-testamentary, protestant or other - just the disappointment of a teacher whose students have *still* not understood him properly after all those years of teaching.
Paññāsikhara wrote: And I also think that he would not have much of a problem with people making images or the like. After all, at the time of his parinibbana, he was content to have the lay people make stupas to enshrine his relics, while the renunciants continued their inner practice. Those lay people would thus sow positive seeds, and have further opportunity to learn and practice the Dhamma in the future. Nothing to roll one's eyes over.
The bit I have made bold was new to me and does go some way to making me more comfortable with the idea of the statue and the practice of veneration/adoration. However, I know (or think I know - I could be wrong in this as well :tongue: ) that statues of the Buddha were not made until many years after his passing, and believed that that was because he asked them not to make images of him.
My (sporadic, disorganised) readings of the suttas haven't included much at all about devotional practices for the laity - dana towards the sangha, yes, but not veneration of the Buddha. Have you got time to clarify the early development of lay practice for us?
:namaste:
Kim
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mikenz66
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by mikenz66 »

Kim O'Hara wrote: My (sporadic, disorganised) readings of the suttas haven't included much at all about devotional practices for the laity - dana towards the sangha, yes, but not veneration of the Buddha. Have you got time to clarify the early development of lay practice for us?
Many Suttas contain this sort of thing:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... all-Buddha" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"There is the case where the disciple of the noble ones recollects the Tathagata, thus: 'Indeed, the Blessed One is worthy and rightly self-awakened, consummate in knowledge & conduct, well-gone, an expert with regard to the world, unexcelled as a trainer for those people fit to be tamed, the Teacher of divine & human beings, awakened, blessed.' As he is recollecting the Tathagata, his mind is calmed, and joy arises; the defilements of his mind are abandoned, ...
In another thread someone pointed out that this makes rather muddy the distinction between "devotional practise" and "meditation". It is common to do devotional practices chanting the words from such Suttas:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#evening" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Itipi so bhagavā arahaṃ sammā-sambuddho,
He is a Blessed One, a Worthy One, a Rightly Self-awakened One,

Vijjā-caraṇa-sampanno sugato lokavidū,
consummate in knowledge & conduct, one who has gone the good way, knower of the cosmos,

Anuttaro purisa-damma-sārathi satthā deva-manussānaṃ buddho bhagavāti.
unexcelled trainer of those who can be taught, teacher of human & divine beings; awakened; blessed.
Mike
Ontheway
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by Ontheway »

Sharing good Dhamma videos related to this topic.


"Buddhist Concept of God" by Venerable K Sri Dhammananda Mahanayaka Thera (starts at time frame 07:42)


"Gods in Buddhism and other religions" by Venerable Ashin Sarana
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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cappuccino
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by cappuccino »

Satori wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:05 am So what did the Buddha have to say about God?
Thereupon the being who re-arose there first thinks to himself: 'I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Supreme Being, the Ordainer, the Almighty, the Father of all that are and are to be. And these beings have been created by me. What is the reason? Because first I made the wish: "Oh, that other beings might come to this place!" And after I made this resolution, now these beings have come.'


Brahmajāla Sutta
form
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by form »

I think he called God as Patanjali
Ontheway
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by Ontheway »

form wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:43 pm I think he called God as Patanjali
Not Pajapati?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
form
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Re: What did the Buddha have to say about God?

Post by form »

Ontheway wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:46 am
form wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:43 pm I think he called God as Patanjali
Not Pajapati?
Your spelling is correct. Mine is wrong
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