the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ben »

I think I'll stick to my Morrocan puy lentils, punjabi chickpeas, black bean charros and polenta, and tofu in a black bean sauce.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
chownah
Posts: 9129
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

Is viewing vomit as disgusting an example of seeing things as they really are.....or is attaining a certain degree of equanimity and then seeing that vomit is just stuff like everything else is just stuff like the food we eat and so is not disgusting an example of seeing things as they really are?
chownah
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

How we see things is a function of many factors. To a cow, a cud is breakfast, lunch, or dinner. To a chick, mother's vomit is the same. To a human adult raised on eggs for breakfast, lunch meat between two slices of bread, and steak with potatoes, onions and mushrooms for dinner on Wednesdays, how they see what they eat is much the same. To a vegan adult, all the above may be disgusting. To dogs, bears, porcupine, and habitually starving people on the street or in The Bush all the above may be pure delight and to them a chance to live another day.
What do starving people eat?: "People who find themselves nearly habitually starving eat whatever they can find. To make a wide-based assumption, starving people often eat rice or grain based products. If they are lucky, they may receive UN food rations, or any sort of charitable food donation. If not, they scrounge up leftover food waste. As nourishment is necessary to survive, starving people will eat anything to simply survive the night. " ....source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_starv ... _world_eat
When I was in High School back in the 1950s we were shown film footage of starving Russians under seige by German Assault forces eating from garbage cans, which they scraped with their hands. The human body, as all bodies needs nutrition in order to live and when survival is at stake will ignore preferences which previously molded perspectives in exchange for whatever will keep it alive.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7182
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka »

Ben wrote:I think I'll stick to my Morrocan puy lentils, punjabi chickpeas, black bean charros and polenta, and tofu in a black bean sauce.
Mmm, delicious, - which reminds me, its time for a late (vegetarian) lunch !

:)
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

According to an Ayurvedic practitioner and dietary specialist (I heard an interview with him on BBC Radio 4 - very distinguished and respected practitioner, Dr Jayaswal) it is completely feasible for the human body to flourish eating apples, soaked/rehydrated almonds and black/green olives and spring water, alone. These three food items apparently contain all the essential ingredients to maintain the health of the body. He did concede however, that such a diet would be tedious, boring and monotonous.
I'm going to try it for a week and see how it pans out....at least it should be cheap!
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
Spiny Norman
Posts: 8068
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Spiny Norman »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:I'm going to try it for a week and see how it pans out....at least it should be cheap!
Cheap is always helpful. :broke: :smile:
Buddha save me from new-agers!
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6552
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Mkoll »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:According to an Ayurvedic practitioner and dietary specialist (I heard an interview with him on BBC Radio 4 - very distinguished and respected practitioner, Dr Jayaswal) it is completely feasible for the human body to flourish eating apples, soaked/rehydrated almonds and black/green olives and spring water, alone. These three food items apparently contain all the essential ingredients to maintain the health of the body. He did concede however, that such a diet would be tedious, boring and monotonous.
I'm going to try it for a week and see how it pans out....at least it should be cheap!
Really? I find almonds pretty expensive myself, from $7-$15/lb. depending upon what kind of almond and where they're from (roasted vs. raw, conventional vs. organic, unsprouted vs. sprouted, small producer vs. big producer). And I live in California where we grow most of the almonds the world eats.

I think of cheap as something like rice and beans which is ~$2/lb. for organic.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
User avatar
TheNoBSBuddhist
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Loch Lomond, via the High AND Low road....

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

I don't know why they're inexpensive here; but the recommended daily intake for the nutritive benefits to be adequate is around 30 a day. However, coupled with the other foods, this number can be reduced to around 20...
A 250g pack of almonds (£3.50) contains approximately 300 almonds (give or take!) so it's more than adequate for the week's intake.
The huge jar of olives is very good value 750g/£2.00 (from a cut-price economy international food supermarket) and apples are also very inexpensive.
So the week's intake, financially-speaking, will be a money-saving exercise!
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6552
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Mkoll »

How many calories do you plan to eat a day? Almonds are very calorie-dense but olives and apples aren't too filling. I'd imagine you'll have to eat quite a few!
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
User avatar
Anagarika
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Vegetarianism and Animals in Early Indian Buddhism

Post by Anagarika »

In this presentation, University of Toronto graduate student Sean M. Smith discusses the relationship between humans and other animals in the psychological and cosmological teachings of early Buddhism.

"As a philosopher I am not interested in contingent historical details. I’m interested in truth, and I think Buddhist Philosophy, and especially Buddhist Philosophy in its early Indian guise – sometimes called the Theravadin school of Buddhism – is a deeply coherent and powerful philosophical model of the mind. And it is buoyed by and anchored by a very robust moral psychology, which I think when understood in the cosmological context of Buddhism … that this school of Buddhism can give us a very powerful lens for thinking about our relationship to animals…"




Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbu ... z3APvrJDX7

Note from OP: I plucked this off of a Facebook posting from Justin Whitaker, and thanks to him for posting this originally. https://www.facebook.com/justinswhitaker?fref=nf
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6552
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Vegetarianism and Animals in Early Indian Buddhism

Post by Mkoll »

If you don't mind, can you give us the TLDW version? What is his argument?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

Due in no small part to inspiration from members of this thread, last night I prepared a meal of brown & wild rice, green peppers, onions, and cellery with peanuts balanced for essential nucleic acids. For a taste explosion and olfactory interest I added powdered garlic, sweet basil, curry, and what I determined by taste was "too much" canola oil and soy sauce. Frustrated with my error, I collected all the ingredients and decided to make an "egg beaters" omelette in the morning. From a purely karmic perspective, I still feel pretty good about the effort, since kamma is "intentional action" and shouldn't include culinary screw-ups.

My question is, aside from dilution being the solution to pollution, which I am going to do by combining the meal with eggs for breakfast this morning, what do others recommend for preventing ruination of an otherwise wonderful vegan meal? :tongue:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6552
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Mkoll »

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Due in no small part to inspiration from members of this thread, last night I prepared a meal of brown & wild rice, green peppers, onions, and cellery with peanuts balanced for essential nucleic acids. For a taste explosion and olfactory interest I added powdered garlic, sweet basil, curry, and what I determined by taste was "too much" canola oil and soy sauce. Frustrated with my error, I collected all the ingredients and decided to make an "egg beaters" omelette in the morning. From a purely karmic perspective, I still feel pretty good about the effort, since kamma is "intentional action" and shouldn't include culinary screw-ups.

My question is, aside from dilution being the solution to pollution, which I am going to do by combining the meal with eggs for breakfast this morning, what do others recommend for preventing ruination of an otherwise wonderful vegan meal? :tongue:
I think lightly salting the dish and letting the diners salt it to their own taste is a good idea.

Were you trying to make fried rice?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

mkoll: "Were you trying to make fried rice?"
Thanks for the suggestion. My culinary instructor, my now deceased wife, taught me not to salt any food in preparation, because it dehydrated the meal. Popcorn is the singular exception! :popcorn:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7182
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Aloka »

Mkoll wrote: I think lightly salting the dish and letting the diners salt it to their own taste is a good idea.

Be careful about adding salt to food :

http://www.heartfoundation.org.au/healt ... /salt.aspx


.
Post Reply