the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Ionbuddy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ionbuddy »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:48 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:21 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:20 pm

Yet that doesn’t happen.
What are you talking about? Killing something that wants to live is pretty heinous in my book.
I meant that the people who do the killing and experiments, and even society at large, on the whole, recognise it as a necessary but horrible act without then going on to “literally justify any immoral action no matter how heinous.”. In other words, the slope ain’t slippery.
Attitudes change over time. That's what makes it slippery. I stand by what I said. And like I said, it's heinous.
I still have defilements.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:40 pm
And like I said, it's heinous.
Yet necessary to save or improve lives. I assume you refuse all drugs and many medical treatments?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Ionbuddy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ionbuddy »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:42 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:40 pm
And like I said, it's heinous.
Yet necessary to save or improve lives. I assume you refuse all drugs and many medical treatments?
That's a bold claim that animals are necessary to develop drugs or medical treatments. But if that's true, then unfortunately I would have to refuse those medical treatments.
I still have defilements.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:56 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:42 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:40 pm
And like I said, it's heinous.
Yet necessary to save or improve lives. I assume you refuse all drugs and many medical treatments?
That's a bold claim that animals are necessary to develop drugs or medical treatments. But if that's true, then unfortunately I would have to refuse those medical treatments.
In the U.K. at least all drugs have to go through animal testing first. All drugs. If I remember correctly that’s also true for all other western nations, and others.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Ionbuddy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ionbuddy »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:56 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:42 pm

Yet necessary to save or improve lives. I assume you refuse all drugs and many medical treatments?
That's a bold claim that animals are necessary to develop drugs or medical treatments. But if that's true, then unfortunately I would have to refuse those medical treatments.
In the U.K. at least all drugs have to go through animal testing first. All drugs. If I remember correctly that’s also true for all other western nations, and others.
Oh yeah... But just because it's required by law, that doesn't make it scientifically necessary to make new treatments. Well there goes all my medication. I'm definitely never going to take any new drugs made after this point in time.
I still have defilements.
Ionbuddy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ionbuddy »

Hm... Guess this means I'll have to become more involved in activism, animals being used to create medicine is simply unacceptable to me.
I still have defilements.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ionbuddy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:08 pm
Oh yeah... But just because it's required by law, that doesn't make it scientifically necessary to make new treatments. Well there goes all my medication. I'm definitely never going to take any new drugs made after this point in time.
Well no, science doesn’t tell us what to do. Science is just accumulated theories and a means to an end. It’s not normative.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Ionbuddy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Ionbuddy »

Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:06 pm I'm stocking up on fava beans and chianti. One needs a reliable source of nutrition, and you meat eaters will be the first to go. Human bacon, yum yum! :jumping:
Hey don't you know? It's okay as long it benefits your health like nothing else! :jumping:
I still have defilements.
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DNS
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by DNS »

I get the weekly newsletter for Mahapajapati monastery emailed to me. Today's teaching was about meat eating:

Q: Purchasing meat at the grocery store incentivizes its replacement by the grocer, which in turn necessitates killing of more animals. It is my understanding that the Buddhist vinaya allows monastics to consume what is placed in their bowls. Because lay people retain optionality with what they eat, is it advised that they purchase only vegetarian foods?

A: The Buddha taught that there are four types of food:

“There are four kinds of nutriments which enable living beings to grow and maintain life. What are these four nutriments? The first is edible food, the second is the food of sense impressions, the third is the food of volition, and the fourth is the food of consciousness.” (SN 12:63)

The purpose of the alms round is to cultivate non-attachment to food on the part of monks and gratitude towards the donors for their merit (pāramī) simultaneously.

Monks practicing in the Mahayana tradition eat only vegetarian foods, adhering to the diet of Devadata, Gotoma’s cousin and a monk himself. However, the Buddha disagreed with Devadata. He stated that because death is natural law, there are allowances for eating animals:

“Jivaka, I say that there are three instances in which meat should not be eaten: when it is seen, heard, or suspected to kill directly. I say that meat should not be eaten in these three instances. I say that there are three instances in which meat may be eaten: when it is not seen, not heard, and not suspected. I say that meat may be eaten in these three instances.” (MN55)

For those crafting a diet within the framework of the three purities outlined by the Buddha in MN55, the logic of meat-eating goes as follows. If an animal was not killed with the intention that it be consumed by you specifically, then it is permissible to eat. Therefore, meat purchased at a grocery store, restaurant, or similar institution in which the slaughtering was done without the expressed purpose that the animal be consumed by you, then its consumption is justified within the three purities.

However, what is most important is to return to the core teachings of the Buddha through mindful meditation and inspection of causes and conditions with regard to what you choose to consume.

Ask yourself, is this beneficial or not? Appropriate or not? There should be no greed, craving, or attachment to food. That is most important. It is through this sort of mindfulness with regard to food that one relinquishes their attachments to it and develops right understanding. We must remain in the Middle Way (Majjhimā paṭipadā, 中道).

May all understand Dhamma and develop Wisdom!

May all beings be free from any suffering!

May all beings be well and happy!

With Metta,

Ayyā Kosallā & Mahāpajāpatī Bhikkhunī Sangha
Edited by Max Montgomery
Nidhi Kinger
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Re: Guest Post

Post by Nidhi Kinger »

Hi! I love how informative and great your articles are. Can you recommend any other Food Blog Names or blogs that go over the same topics? Thanks a lot!
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DNS
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by DNS »

Problem solved, debate is over! Technology has solved the dilemma. Nuseir's video today:



I still wouldn't want to eat it, as I don't like the taste of meat, but for those who do, a great solution.
Agnikan
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Agnikan »

DNS wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:05 pm Problem solved, debate is over! Technology has solved the dilemma. Nuseir's video today:



I still wouldn't want to eat it, as I don't like the taste of meat, but for those who do, a great solution.
I’m sure they can find a way to make it taste like broccoli.
bpallister
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by bpallister »

i've been vegan for almost four years after many years as a vegetarian and then "relapsing" on meat for a few years. I find veganism to be a pretty good way of life, for me. i was becoming lactose-intolerant anyway before i made the switch.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Another reason to stop factory farming and stop eating chickens:

https://thehumaneleague.org/white-striping-report/
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
greentea
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by greentea »

DNS wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:05 pm Problem solved, debate is over! Technology has solved the dilemma. Nuseir's video today:



I still wouldn't want to eat it, as I don't like the taste of meat, but for those who do, a great solution.
I do not know, it feels like an uncanny valley to me. It just reminds me of Soylent green, I would not be surprised if something disturbing gets exposed about the process. Seems like a great plot for a sci Fi horror though.
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