what is delusion ?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
Post Reply
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

what is delusion ?

Post by confusedlayman »

Rebirth-linking cittas
are further classified as three-rooted if the three wholesome
mental factors of alobha [non-attachment], adosa [non-hatred]
and amoha [non-delusion] are present; two-rooted if only alobha
and adosa are present, and rootless if none of them is present.
Only a being born with a three-rooted rebirth-linking citta can
attain jhàna [meditative absorption], magga [path] and phala
[fruition].

-------
it says non delusion is needed for jhana, magga and phala.. so only persons who in past did parami, associated with buddhism but reached state just before stream entry but failed to attain stream entry can only attain steam entry or jhana plus path together in present rebirth?

is non delusion needed for attaining jhana itself? as deluded astectics also attain jhana

so what is delusion means?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: what is delusion ?

Post by Coëmgenu »

I'm not an Abhidhamma expert at all by any means, so if this is completely wrong or off-topic moderation can remove this.

Just looking at the text you quoted, it looks like it is talking about the process of the "rebirth-linking cittas" of beings. If someone is born via the three-rooted citta route with the root of non-delusion, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are unable to produce delusion later in life. One would think. These "wholesome roots" are described as allowing one to "attain jhàna [meditative absorption], magga [path] and phala [fruition]," but not determining that one will be born without delusion and maintain a state of no-delusion until jhana, magga, and phala.
The thus come thus gone,
who has neither came nor went,
enthroned on men’s breath,

like the still turtle,
withdraws six appendages
and is clothed in light --

illuminating
the unilluminated
with three shining cures.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: what is delusion ?

Post by confusedlayman »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm I'm not an Abhidhamma expert at all by any means, so if this is completely wrong or off-topic moderation can remove this.

Just looking at the text you quoted, it looks like it is talking about the process of the "rebirth-linking cittas" of beings. If someone is born via the three-rooted citta route with the root of non-delusion, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are unable to produce delusion later in life. One would think. These "wholesome roots" are described as allowing one to "attain jhàna [meditative absorption], magga [path] and phala [fruition]," but not determining that one will be born without delusion and maintain a state of no-delusion until jhana, magga, and phala.
so it is just the ability ?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
coconut
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 am

Re: what is delusion ?

Post by coconut »

Delusion is Identity View and Conceit.
71. "When a noble disciple has thus understood the taints, the origin of the taints, the cessation of the taints, and the way leading to the cessation of the taints, he entirely abandons the underlying tendency to lust, he abolishes the underlying tendency to aversion, he extirpates the underlying tendency to the view and conceit 'I am,' and by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma and has arrived at this true Dhamma."
- Samma Ditthi sutta

You can be deluded while having jhanas, see MN 1 which shows that a deluded person identifies with their current state of existence.
SarathW
Posts: 14747
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: what is delusion ?

Post by SarathW »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:54 am Rebirth-linking cittas
are further classified as three-rooted if the three wholesome
mental factors of alobha [non-attachment], adosa [non-hatred]
and amoha [non-delusion] are present; two-rooted if only alobha
and adosa are present, and rootless if none of them is present.
Only a being born with a three-rooted rebirth-linking citta can
attain jhàna [meditative absorption], magga [path] and phala
[fruition].

-------
it says non delusion is needed for jhana, magga and phala.. so only persons who in past did parami, associated with buddhism but reached state just before stream entry but failed to attain stream entry can only attain steam entry or jhana plus path together in present rebirth?

is non delusion needed for attaining jhana itself? as deluded astectics also attain jhana

so what is delusion means?
Could you give the link to above quote please.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Alino
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm

Re: what is delusion ?

Post by Alino »

Non delusion mean wisdom, wisdom mean seeing anicca, dukkha anatta of phenomenas, wisdom arise naturally with concentration, wisdom is necessary for Fruit.
_/\_
SteRo
Posts: 3578
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: अ धीः

Re: what is delusion ?

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:54 am Rebirth-linking cittas
are further classified as three-rooted if the three wholesome
mental factors of alobha [non-attachment], adosa [non-hatred]
and amoha [non-delusion] are present; two-rooted if only alobha
and adosa are present, and rootless if none of them is present.
Only a being born with a three-rooted rebirth-linking citta can
attain jhàna [meditative absorption], magga [path] and phala
[fruition].

-------
it says non delusion is needed for jhana, magga and phala.. so only persons who in past did parami, associated with buddhism but reached state just before stream entry but failed to attain stream entry can only attain steam entry or jhana plus path together in present rebirth?

is non delusion needed for attaining jhana itself? as deluded astectics also attain jhana

so what is delusion means?
Abhidhammattha Sangaha wrote:§6. Consciousness Rooted in Delusion (mohamūlacittāni) — 2
11. Upekkhāsahagataṁ vicikicchāsampayuttam ekaṁ.
12. Upekkhāsahagataṁ uddhaccasampayuttam ekan ti.
Imāni dve momūhacittāni nāma.

...

11. One consciousness, accompanied by equanimity, associated with doubt.
12. One consciousness, accompanied by equanimity, associated with restlessness.
These two types of consciousness involve sheer delusion
So since delusion is associated with doubt/uncertainty or restlessness/agitation and both, doubt/uncertainty and restlessness/agitation are known as nivaranas/hindrances, it seems that "non delusion is needed for jhana".
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
Post Reply