Kāya is by default rūpa-kāya physical body in canonical Abhidhamma Sati-'paṭṭhāna: and supramundane first jhana is done

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
Post Reply
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Kāya is by default rūpa-kāya physical body in canonical Abhidhamma Sati-'paṭṭhāna: and supramundane first jhana is done

Post by frank k »

Kāya is by default rūpa-kāya physical body in canonical Abhidhamma Sati-'paṭṭhāna: and supramundane first jhana is done with satipatthana concurrently!
http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... sical.html

So if supramudane first jhana has body awareness, is done with satipatthana simultaneously, is not a frozen stupor (as Vism. claims),
then why would regular jhana be any different?

What exactly is supramundane first jhana? Is it jhana just as it's about to realize nirvana?
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
Assaji
Posts: 1941
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Re: Kāya is by default rūpa-kāya physical body in canonical Abhidhamma Sati-'paṭṭhāna: and supramundane first jhana is d

Post by Assaji »

Hi Frank,

The Abhidhamma explanation includes a long rote list of skillful modes of conduct, included many times in the Dhammasaṅgaṇi and in the Vibhaṅga. So it's hard to say whether and how it relates to the Satipaṭṭhāna in particular.

:anjali:
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Kāya is by default rūpa-kāya physical body in canonical Abhidhamma Sati-'paṭṭhāna: and supramundane first jhana is d

Post by frank k »

Assaji wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:40 pm Hi Frank,

The Abhidhamma explanation includes a long rote list of skillful modes of conduct, included many times in the Dhammasaṅgaṇi and in the Vibhaṅga. So it's hard to say whether and how it relates to the Satipaṭṭhāna in particular.

:anjali:
I'll do some more articles on other vibhangas in the next few days,
the kaya usage in bojjhanga is particularly telling, especially when compared to jhana vb.

notice that sampajano in satipatthana vb, ad sampajano in 3rd jhana of ab vb 12 jhanna, is exactly the same!
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... hanga.html

it's got samma ditthi and dhamma vicaya embededded within the gloss,
so even in canonical 3rd jhana abhidhamma, jhana can not be a frozen stupor as Vism. redefines it to be.

certainly the present day Ab vb 12 jhana redefines kaya as mind only, but I see nothing in there to support the Vism. frozen stupor appana samadhi model.

your minds should be blown by the samapajano gloss in Ab Vb 12 jhana (3rd jhana), even Vism. 3rd jhana sampajano gloss seems to be a shortened version of Ab sampajano. your minds should be blown because sampajano is embedded within 3rd jhana, so it's not something you do "after" or "before" 3rd jhana. If that were the case, then Vism. wouldn't needed to have redefine 'vitakka and vicara' of first jhana as 'not thinking', and would nont have needed to redefine 'kaya' as "body of mind", if we were to assume the factors they list (such as sampajano annd upekkha) are things to be done "outiside of" appana samadhi.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 11167
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Kāya is by default rūpa-kāya physical body in canonical Abhidhamma Sati-'paṭṭhāna: and supramundane first jhana is d

Post by DooDoot »

The impression is the term paṭisandhi is only explained somewhat in the Paṭisambhidāmagga; even though it is used in the Abhidhamma, which gives a speculative impression the Paṭisambhidāmagga may predate the Abhidhamma.

To contrast the OP's view of Abhidhamma, the Paṭisambhidāmagga appears to say the term "sabba kaya" found in Step 3 of Anapanasati refers to both the rupa-kaya & nama-kaya.

Naturally, anyone that has actually practised profoundly has the insight into how the state of mind effects the state of the breathing & the state of the physical body.

Also, the Anapanasati Sutta adds "in & out breaths are a kaya among other kaya".

:smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Post Reply