What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
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SarathW
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What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by SarathW »

What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?
Buddhism teaches that all phenomena, mental and physical, arise through conditions. In the Abhidhamma the modes of conditionality are analyzed into twenty-four types of relationship, each representing a tie between a condition and the phenomena it conditions. A brief account of these is as follows:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... #causality
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
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Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by Ontheway »

65. Here it might be said: “Let us then firstly agree that ignorance is a condition for formations. But it must now be stated for which formations, and in which way it is a condition.”

Here is the reply: “Twenty-four conditions have been stated by the Blessed One as follows:
[The 24 Conditions] 66. “(1) Root-cause condition, (2) object condition, (3) predominance condition, (4) proximity condition, (5) contiguity condition, (6) conascence condition, (7) mutuality condition, (8) support condition, (9) decisive-support condition, (10) prenascence condition, (11) postnascence condition, (12) repetition condition, (13) kamma condition, (14) kamma-result condition, (15) nutriment condition, (16) faculty condition, (17) jhána condition, (18) path condition, (19) association condition, (20) dissociation condition, (21) presence condition, (22) absence condition, (23) disappearance condition, (24) non-disappearance condition” (Patthana I 1).

- Visuddhi Magga (Chapter: Panna-bhumi-niddesa, Paticca Samuppada)
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by SarathW »

Thanks.
Does this 24 conditioning apply to the whole Dependent Origination or only for the first limb? (ignorance is a condition for formations)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:37 am Thanks.
Does this 24 conditioning apply to the whole Dependent Origination or only for the first limb? (ignorance is a condition for formations)
To that, I am not qualified to answer that as I haven't read the Patthana in full.

Up to this stage, I can only understand to the extent that Patthana can be used for explaining Avijja paccaya Sankhara in details from Abhidhamma bhajaniya method.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21240
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by SarathW »

Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:49 am
SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:37 am Thanks.
Does this 24 conditioning apply to the whole Dependent Origination or only for the first limb? (ignorance is a condition for formations)
To that, I am not qualified to answer that as I haven't read the Patthana in full.

Up to this stage, I can only understand to the extent that Patthana can be used for explaining Avijja paccaya Sankhara in details from Abhidhamma bhajaniya method.
Could you give me some examples, please?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:55 am
Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:49 am
SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:37 am Thanks.
Does this 24 conditioning apply to the whole Dependent Origination or only for the first limb? (ignorance is a condition for formations)
To that, I am not qualified to answer that as I haven't read the Patthana in full.

Up to this stage, I can only understand to the extent that Patthana can be used for explaining Avijja paccaya Sankhara in details from Abhidhamma bhajaniya method.
Could you give me some examples, please?
I am not able to give detailed exposition on this topic. Patthana is a huge topic. Maybe this book "Patthana in Daily Life" will help:

http://www.tathagata.org/sites/default/ ... 20Life.pdf

Hope the link works.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21240
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by SarathW »

Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:03 pm
SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:55 am
Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:49 am

To that, I am not qualified to answer that as I haven't read the Patthana in full.

Up to this stage, I can only understand to the extent that Patthana can be used for explaining Avijja paccaya Sankhara in details from Abhidhamma bhajaniya method.
Could you give me some examples, please?
I am not able to give detailed exposition on this topic. Patthana is a huge topic. Maybe this book "Patthana in Daily Life" will help:

http://www.tathagata.org/sites/default/ ... 20Life.pdf

Hope the link works.
Thanks that is very helpful.
There given with an example of a rose to explain how these 24 conditions operate.
It is sort of explaining Dependent Origination in a different way.
:anjali:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:43 pm
Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:03 pm
SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:55 am
Could you give me some examples, please?
I am not able to give detailed exposition on this topic. Patthana is a huge topic. Maybe this book "Patthana in Daily Life" will help:

http://www.tathagata.org/sites/default/ ... 20Life.pdf

Hope the link works.
Thanks that is very helpful.
There given with an example of a rose to explain how these 24 conditions operate.
It is sort of explaining Dependent Origination in a different way.
:anjali:
Paticca Samuppada and its detailed exposition by Orthodox Theravada is always involved Patthana in it.

Certainly it is quite different from modern day's interpretation.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by SarathW »

Certainly it is quite different from modern day's interpretation.
Agree.
The modern-day disputes about Dependent Origination are a result of not understanding the effect of Patthana in Dependent Origination.
Whether it is a three life model etc.
In my opinion that trying to understand Dependent Origination without Patthana is like trying to ride a bicycle with one wheel.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by asahi »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:08 am trying to understand Dependent Origination without Patthana is like trying to ride a bicycle with one wheel.
Not necessary so
No bashing No gossiping
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: What is the use of the study of "modes of conditioning"?

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:55 am
Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:49 am
SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:37 am Thanks.
Does this 24 conditioning apply to the whole Dependent Origination or only for the first limb? (ignorance is a condition for formations)
To that, I am not qualified to answer that as I haven't read the Patthana in full.

Up to this stage, I can only understand to the extent that Patthana can be used for explaining Avijja paccaya Sankhara in details from Abhidhamma bhajaniya method.
Could you give me some examples, please?
Hi SarathW.

Theruwan Saranai.

http://abhidhamma.com/DependentOrigination_Pt.pdf

I believe this booklet can answer your question on how Patthāna (Mahapakarana) knowledge can help to penetrate Paticca Samuppada. Indeed, I realised that Patthāna is a very profound and deep knowledge of Dhamma. Only the Buddha can fully comprehend the Patthāna knowledge.

Just Dhamma sharing. :namaste:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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