What sutta was the concept of "krya citta" based on?

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rhinoceroshorn
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What sutta was the concept of "krya citta" based on?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Is this?
SN 12.51 wrote:What do you think, monks, can a monk whose taints are destroyed generate a meritorious volitional formation, or a demeritorious volitional formation (=kamma), or an impertubable volitional formation?

No, venerable sir.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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Dhammanando
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Re: What sutta was the concept of "krya citta" based on?

Post by Dhammanando »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:29 am Is this?
SN 12.51 wrote:What do you think, monks, can a monk whose taints are destroyed generate a meritorious volitional formation, or a demeritorious volitional formation (=kamma), or an impertubable volitional formation?

No, venerable sir.
That would be one example. Another would be Dhammapada 39:

anavassutacittassa, ananvāhatacetaso,
puññapāpapahīnassa, natthi jāgarato bhayaṃ.


"For the one with mind free of lust, for the one with mind unperplexed, for the one who has abandoned making merit and demerit, for the watchful, there is no fear."
(Ānandajoti)
The problem, then, is how to reconcile statements like these with the fact that arahants are depicted as performing the kind of actions that would be called "skilful" or "meritorious" if they were being performed by non-arahants. At the Third Council the latter fact led one school, the Andhakas to claim that arahants do accumulate kamma:
Andhakas: But may not an Arahant give gifts—clothing, alms, food, lodging, medicaments for sickness, food, drink? May he not salute shrines, hang garlands on them, and perfumes and unguents? May he not make consummate oblations before them? You admit this. But these are all merit-accumulating acts.
The conception of the kiriyācitta (a consciousness that is neither the resultant of past kamma nor the creator of fresh kamma) is the Abhidhamma's way of avoiding the error of the Andhakas:
Theravādin to the Andhaka: If the Arahant have accumulation of merit, you must allow he may also have accumulation of demerit. And you must equally allow that he achieves meritorious karma, and karma leading to the imperturbable, that he does actions conducing to this or that destiny, or plane of rebirth, actions conducing to authority, influence, riches, adherents and retainers, celestial or human prosperity.
and also the contrary error of some modernists who draw antinomian conclusions from passages like Dhammapada 39, claiming that an arahant is amoral and no longer observant of any moral restraint.

From the Kathāvatthu Atthakathā:

.
Debates Commentary.png
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: What sutta was the concept of "krya citta" based on?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:28 pm The problem, then, is how to reconcile statements like these with the fact that arahants are depicted as performing the kind of actions that would be called "skilful" or "meritorious" if they were being performed by non-arahants. At the Third Council the latter fact led one school, the Andhakas to claim that arahants do accumulate kamma:
Thanks Ven. Dhammanando!
I was wondering exactly about this.
The Andhakas had a reasonable position, though. It's nice to see how the early schools dealt with problems which we struggle to understand or reconcile today. :twothumbsup:
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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