Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
pvthanh98
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Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by pvthanh98 »

Dear everyone, I am not an native english speaker, so I may have some problems of explaining.
Please help me. I respect buddha very much and i have loved Buddhism since i was around ten years old. I often visit pagoda with all of my respect.
However, I do not know why it always appears unintentional bad thoughts about buddha in my mind when i pray or I look at buddha statue. I try to kill all of these bad thoughts but i can not. It appears in my mind every hour and everyday and makes me obsessed a lot. please give my some advice. Would I fall to the hell because of these bad thoughts, is it karma? I am so worried. I do really do not want to think of it. thank you all
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confusedlayman
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by confusedlayman »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm Dear everyone, I am not an native english speaker, so I may have some problems of explaining.
Please help me. I respect buddha very much and i have loved Buddhism since i was around ten years old. I often visit pagoda with all of my respect.
However, I do not know why it always appears unintentional bad thoughts about buddha in my mind when i pray or I look at buddha statue. I try to kill all of these bad thoughts but i can not. It appears in my mind every hour and everyday and makes me obsessed a lot. please give my some advice. Would I fall to the hell because of these bad thoughts, is it karma? I am so worried. I do really do not want to think of it. thank you all
bad thoughts arise with different object... u are not attacking buddha because u never seen him and statue dont represent the buddha as it is just a speculative image.

only way to attack buddha is by hating his dhamma, hating his behaviour, going back to time travel and physically, verbally attacking buddha which is bad karma...

u need to work with thoughts and it takes lots of time to get rid of ill thoughts.. u need to reach anagram stage. however dont deny the capabilities of buddha and radiate metta
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
pvthanh98
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by pvthanh98 »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:04 pm
pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm Dear everyone, I am not an native english speaker, so I may have some problems of explaining.
Please help me. I respect buddha very much and i have loved Buddhism since i was around ten years old. I often visit pagoda with all of my respect.
However, I do not know why it always appears unintentional bad thoughts about buddha in my mind when i pray or I look at buddha statue. I try to kill all of these bad thoughts but i can not. It appears in my mind every hour and everyday and makes me obsessed a lot. please give my some advice. Would I fall to the hell because of these bad thoughts, is it karma? I am so worried. I do really do not want to think of it. thank you all
bad thoughts arise with different object... u are not attacking buddha because u never seen him and statue dont represent the buddha as it is just a speculative image.

only way to attack buddha is by hating his dhamma, hating his behaviour, going back to time travel and physically, verbally attacking buddha which is bad karma...

u need to work with thoughts and it takes lots of time to get rid of ill thoughts.. u need to reach anagram stage. however dont deny the capabilities of buddha and radiate metta
In Buddhism, I know if a person has bad thought, this can become karma. I also read some stories of buddha that if there is a certain person has ill thought about buddha, he certainly falls to the hell. It makes me worried a a lot even thought these thought, I do not want to think of. they appears like a habit after a long time with obsess. I am not superstitious but since I worried, I was getting quite superstitious. I give some advice to myself that, ignore them, gradually i will forget them. But i always live in obsess.
Srilankaputra
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Srilankaputra »

Hi,

You might like to read this sutta

https://suttacentral.net/mn20/en/bodhi

If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language? It might be available in that language.

Lokāmisaṃ pajahe santipekkho ti
pvthanh98
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by pvthanh98 »

Srilankaputra wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:33 pm Hi,

You might like to read this sutta

https://suttacentral.net/mn20/en/bodhi

If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language? It might be available in that language.
My native language is Vietnamese
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

It's kamma. Don't get sad for that. The most important thing is what you can do in the present with this old kamma.
My practical solutions: ignoring, thinking the opposite of the thought.
If you're talking about thoughts of ill-will, I recommend meditating on the brahmaviharas. Metta in particular. Metta is really effective against ill-will. Think about when you are with a headache and take a medicine. Metta is the medicine for ill-will.

Bhante Vimalaramsi is one the main proponents of metta of our time. He really emphasizes the importance of metta. It's the only meditation I saw him teach.
I recommend following his instructions. The idea of smiling in meditation may sound ridiculous at first but give it a chance and you'll know why it's important. Good luck.

Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
pvthanh98
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by pvthanh98 »

Am I safe? Would I get guilty or bad things in after-life if I have these unintentional thoughts?
thank you! I believe I will get rid of it. But i still worry.
Srilankaputra
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Srilankaputra »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:45 pm
Srilankaputra wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:33 pm Hi,

You might like to read this sutta

https://suttacentral.net/mn20/en/bodhi

If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language? It might be available in that language.
My native language is Vietnamese
I think its available in vietnamese :anjali:

https://suttacentral.net/mn20/vi/minh_chau

Lokāmisaṃ pajahe santipekkho ti
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robertk
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by robertk »

So - by Dhamma, Abhidhamma, all elements are anatta, not self, not under anyone's control.

Be happy that you are getting a lesson that thinking is not self.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Sam Vara »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm However, I do not know why it always appears unintentional bad thoughts about buddha in my mind when i pray or I look at buddha statue. I try to kill all of these bad thoughts but i can not. It appears in my mind every hour and everyday and makes me obsessed a lot. please give my some advice. Would I fall to the hell because of these bad thoughts, is it karma? I am so worried. I do really do not want to think of it. thank you all
If the thoughts are unintentional, then there is no kamma involved. Kamma is intention. The way in which you deal with them can have kammic consequences, however, because that is likely to be intentional thoughts and speech.

Don't worry about them. It's just nonsense thrown up by the mind. Possibly, you think that you should be a "good Buddhist", and part of your mind rebels against that and plays tricks on you. Try and just ignore it. As well as the excellent advice given about metta meditation, try just watching it, letting it be.

You won't go to hell because of these thoughts.
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Do metta smiling like this girl > Image
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
Trindolex
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Trindolex »

Dear pvthanh98,

What you are describing is a classic description of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), a milder version of this also being called intrusive thoughts in psychology. The religious form of OCD is called scrupulosity and is probably one of the hardest psychological disorders to overcome. This is because the cure for this according to psychology is something called exposure therapy where you let the thought occur without reacting, or even think it intentionally in order to demonstrate to yourself that no harm will come from thinking it. The problem with this method for scrupulosity is that we are dealing with karma and resultants which happen in the future after you die, which you have no idea how they work, so there is extreme fear of engaging in exposure therapy. Also, from the literature that I've read on OCD, it doesn't really look like anyone gets cured of it completely.

To add to this, OCD usually starts with an intrusive thought just springing up into the mind out of nowhere and then the sufferer will do some form of 'ritual' to get rid of the resultant anxiety, the classic one being washing their hands. But there is also a form called "Pure-O", which stands for 'pure obsessive' but is a misnomer. This is a form where the sufferer engages in a ritual solely in their mind, such as quickly thinking a positive thought to counteract the negative one. For example, if a bad thought about the Buddha comes to you, you might chant "Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammasambuddhasa" in your head to eliminate your anxiety and guilt. What you are doing here is the mental ritual part of the OCD equation. I'm not saying to do this by the way, I'm not sure it will cure the condition since you would be reinforcing the mental pathway.

But at least now you are aware that it's something that about 2% of humans all over the planet suffer from and that you are not alone. I suggest looking up the terms that I've mentioned above and educating yourself about the condition.

OCD seems to be a disorder of the amygdala in the brain which for some reason is overstimulated and gets triggered by certain morally significant thoughts. If you observe your mind throughout the day you will see that a lot of thoughts just pass by and don't trigger the panic reaction. You might also observe that when you feel happy and energetic some days, it's easier to let the thought pass through you, or bounce it out of your mind.

To manage your condition, I can suggest you try to lessen your anxiety generally in life in whatever way you know how. Someone suggested metta for example and this is will help but won't cure you unless you become extremely proficient at it. I also suggest quitting coffee, it seems to make it worse, and also watch your diet, some foods may make your condition worse and you will need mindfulness to determine which ones those are. Hint: look up the anti-vata diet in the Ayurvedic system. Also what has been really helpful for me was doing the fast breathing method and ice baths from the Wim Hof method. Studies have found OCD sufferer's have 30% higher inflammation in the brain and the Wim Hof method is good at reducing inflammation really fast. So in a way, it's good news, you are not really evil for thinking these thoughts, it's just a brain disorder that could possibly be resolved. But prepare for the long haul, it could take years to learn how to live with it.

Also, the sutta suggested above (https://suttacentral.net/mn20/en/bodhi) is very helpful for this condition, since I believe this sutta is specifically to address obsessive thoughts, not just regular distracting thoughts. Regular distracting thoughts are dealt with by applying concentration to your object, especially the breath, which the Buddha suggested for 'cutting off thought'. But these obsessive thoughts are order of magnitude more powerful and can completely derail your meditation. It's also my belief that the deeper we go into the mind, there is a high potential to unlock hidden traumas which can manifest as obsessive thoughts. The five methods in the sutta are specifically for this condition. If you try the last one (crushing mind with mind), you need a lot of energy for it to work, and some fast breathing (with relaxation on the outbreath though) can give you that quickly.

Good luck :smile:

Wim Hof Breathing link below:

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cappuccino
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by cappuccino »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm
perhaps read this book

Buddha (Penguin Lives Biographies) Paperback
"All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine." -Socrates
Good for Your Soul
pvthanh98
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by pvthanh98 »

Thank you everyone. I also think I get OCD, I usualy think of it like a habit and it is difficult to stop sometimes. OCD makes me worried a lot and always think of bad things. If I've got sick like this, I think Buddha will bless me and I do not create bad karma. Everything is not sure, but one thing I am sure that in the back of my mind, i respect him and Buddhism.
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Pondera
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Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Pondera »

The mind is neurotic.

For example - you may hear something on the radio - like pedophiles are in the community and the people there are concerned about their children.

And what happens? We think “am I a pedophile? Do I like little children? What if I’m a pedophile? What if?!!!”

The mind does this to torture you.

If you had been raised to love Jesus, then you would do the same.

There is NOTHING wrong with you. Do not identify with the negative thoughts. This is how Mara likes us to feel. Tortured.

Ignore the thoughts. And continue killing them. But do the steps the Buddha taught to stop Mara.

Seek jhana. Don’t identify with the negative thoughts. They are NOT you!

Strive to quiet the mind. Strive for tranquility and peace through meditation.

The Buddha will love you no matter what you think. He has a compassionate heart and a good sense of humour.

You ARE not going to hell for this.

Take care 🧐
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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