As title says, please: if there's someone in front of you who is doubtful of the Abhidhamma, how would you go about convincing him that learning about the Abhidhamma will help in his practice? How will you advertise the Abhidhamma?
I'm asking this because I'm doubtful myself, have always been, but I think there might be a sliver of usefulness in the Abhidhamma, just like there mght be a sliver of usefulness in the Mahayana. So I'm open to learning about the topic, but I just need a little more convincing perhaps.
Note, "it's part of orthodox tradition" doesn't pass in my book as a valid reason to study something, anything.
I come in peace and would lke to hear as many positive replies as possible. Cheers!
Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
The Abhidhamma had two primary purposes. Firstly, to organise what was found in the suttas and to offer further clarifications. Secondly, to act as an aid to meditation.Mr. Seek wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:41 pm As title says, please: if there's someone in front of you who is doubtful of the Abhidhamma, how would you go about convincing him that learning about the Abhidhamma will help in his practice? How will you advertise the Abhidhamma?
I'm asking this because I'm doubtful myself, have always been, but I think there might be a sliver of usefulness in the Abhidhamma, just like there mght be a sliver of usefulness in the Mahayana. So I'm open to learning about the topic, but I just need a little more convincing perhaps.
Note, "it's part of orthodox tradition" doesn't pass in my book as a valid reason to study something, anything.
I come in peace and would lke to hear as many positive replies as possible. Cheers!
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
I'm genuinely interested in knowing where all of the above is said. Could you post a reference? Is it from a Commentary, in the Abhidhamma itself?
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
There is Abhidhamma material available online. Study some of Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of the Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha/Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, for example, and see for yourself (I'd suggest reading the introductory parts, and then sections that are of interest to you).
Although, it is complex, and difficult—especially for a beginner/intermediate, or for a person who hasn't read the Suttas extensively.
(It would likely be best to first study and have a solid understanding of paṭiccasamuppāda, satipaṭṭhāna and other of the more difficult Sutta teachings, and a good foundation in the Sutta teachings as a whole, though.)
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Before you worry about Abhidhamma you have to be an advanced practitioner with the Sutta knowledge.
Have you read the Sutta?
Have you done some practice based on Sutta?
Are you familiar with the terminology of Sutta?
I recommend people to read Abhidhamma when they are quite confident in Sutta knowledge.
In my opinion, Abhidhamma helps you with advanced practitioners.
Why I am saying this is as Bhikkhu Bodhi said, reading Abhidhamma is like eating dry grass.
Eating green grass for a human is bad enough just imagine that you have to eat dry grass!
Have you read the Sutta?
Have you done some practice based on Sutta?
Are you familiar with the terminology of Sutta?
I recommend people to read Abhidhamma when they are quite confident in Sutta knowledge.
In my opinion, Abhidhamma helps you with advanced practitioners.
Why I am saying this is as Bhikkhu Bodhi said, reading Abhidhamma is like eating dry grass.
Eating green grass for a human is bad enough just imagine that you have to eat dry grass!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Do you have Sutta Knowledge? Which sutta refers to the "birth" ("jati") of self-view? Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Give it to me!SarathW wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:52 pm Before you worry about Abhidhamma you have to be an advanced practitioner with the Sutta knowledge.
Have you read the Sutta?
Have you done some practice based on Sutta?
Are you familiar with the terminology of Sutta?
I recommend people to read Abhidhamma when they are quite confident in Sutta knowledge.
In my opinion, Abhidhamma helps you with advanced practitioners.
Why I am saying this is as Bhikkhu Bodhi said, reading Abhidhamma is like eating dry grass.
Eating green grass for a human is bad enough just imagine that you have to eat dry grass!
How does it aid in meditation? I've heard of this before, but I don't know how. I even heard of medtitating monks carrying with them the Paṭṭhāna when on forest retreats.
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Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Studying the 52 cetasikas mostly helps in identifying what mental contents are there in the mind. It's a more systematic classification compared to the suttas, so easier to see them while meditating.
Let's use an example, piti (joy/rapture), is one of the cetasikas, in the 5 aggregates classification, it's volitional formations. So piti is actually something we can will, control. This is as opposed to sukha (happiness), which is a resultant pleasant feeling. This is useful in identifying the factors of Jhanas, cause piti and sukha arises together frequently and if you know these details, you can distinguish them a bit more. Especially on the differences between 2nd and 3rd Jhana, where piti disappeared in 3rd Jhana.
It's things like this which could help.
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
I don't try to advertise any Suttas or Abhidhamma to people who are not interested in Saddhamma. It is always Ehipassiko.
But if you ask what is the benefits of reading and learning Abhidhamma, for my case:
1) It will deepen my understanding on Dhamma, especially topics dealing with Khandhas, Ayatanas, Dhatu. (Dhammasangani, Dhatukatha, Vibhanga)
2) It facilitates better understand on Paticca Samuppada, without having risk getting into Sassata Ditthi and Uccheda Ditthi, or misunderstand what Buddha taught, eg: Sati the fisherman's son. (Vibhanga)
3) It helps to differentiate which teaching is correct and which is incorrect. (Kathavathu)
4) It helps to broaden my knowledge on types of people and various phenomena (Puggalapannati, Yamaka, Patthana)
All these knowledge and understanding will in turn contribute to my practice in various aspects :
- How to perform meritorious deeds with best experience,
- How to watch our thoughts from time to time,
- How to differentiate various teachings from different schools,
- How to be more observant to our actions,
- Understand more about the nature of Mind or how it works,
- It facilitates the understanding of the arising and ceasing of phenomena due to conditions, that all things are Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta.
So, I think for a beginner who really aim for Nibbana, he/she can read through the Gathas, Dhammapada, Jatakas, and Sutta Nipata first and practice accordingly.
As he/she progress in the path, can study more about short Suttanta texts and try Samattha meditation to calm his/her mind. Later he/she should study the longer suttas and Abhidhamma Pitaka while approaching Vipassana meditation, it is to deepen his/her knowledge on the nature of Mind & Body, and to facilitate Bhavana practice.
So, a serious Buddhist should study both Suttanta Pitaka and Abhidhamma Pitaka as much as possible. This is Pariyatti. Without proper Pariyatti, there can be no proper Patipatti; if without proper Patipatti, then Pativeda is impossible.
But if you ask what is the benefits of reading and learning Abhidhamma, for my case:
1) It will deepen my understanding on Dhamma, especially topics dealing with Khandhas, Ayatanas, Dhatu. (Dhammasangani, Dhatukatha, Vibhanga)
2) It facilitates better understand on Paticca Samuppada, without having risk getting into Sassata Ditthi and Uccheda Ditthi, or misunderstand what Buddha taught, eg: Sati the fisherman's son. (Vibhanga)
3) It helps to differentiate which teaching is correct and which is incorrect. (Kathavathu)
4) It helps to broaden my knowledge on types of people and various phenomena (Puggalapannati, Yamaka, Patthana)
All these knowledge and understanding will in turn contribute to my practice in various aspects :
- How to perform meritorious deeds with best experience,
- How to watch our thoughts from time to time,
- How to differentiate various teachings from different schools,
- How to be more observant to our actions,
- Understand more about the nature of Mind or how it works,
- It facilitates the understanding of the arising and ceasing of phenomena due to conditions, that all things are Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta.
So, I think for a beginner who really aim for Nibbana, he/she can read through the Gathas, Dhammapada, Jatakas, and Sutta Nipata first and practice accordingly.
As he/she progress in the path, can study more about short Suttanta texts and try Samattha meditation to calm his/her mind. Later he/she should study the longer suttas and Abhidhamma Pitaka while approaching Vipassana meditation, it is to deepen his/her knowledge on the nature of Mind & Body, and to facilitate Bhavana practice.
So, a serious Buddhist should study both Suttanta Pitaka and Abhidhamma Pitaka as much as possible. This is Pariyatti. Without proper Pariyatti, there can be no proper Patipatti; if without proper Patipatti, then Pativeda is impossible.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Hi Bhante,DiamondNgXZ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:08 am Studying the 52 cetasikas mostly helps in identifying what mental contents are there in the mind.
I've found this to be the case as well.
Although the descriptions of the sankhāra-kkhanda in the Suttas are useful...
the cetasika are listed systematically, which in some cases works very well.
Last edited by samseva on Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Can someone explain it to me like I'm 5? I sit down to meditate--then what, how does Abhidhamma assist in that, specifically? Cheers.
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Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Helps you to identify what's happening in meditation. What you're experiencing, gives a name to it. The details of the proximate cause, manifestation, etc are quite nice to know.
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
DiamondNgXZ wrote
This is how I read it. Pl. tell me I am wrong.
You continued
I appreciate OP's question and those who attempt to answer it.
Thanks Dearest DiamondNgXZ, for that answer.
Love
PS. As OP wrote "I too come in peace and would ilke to hear as many positive replies as possible. Cheers!"
You are referring to identification. Does abhidhamma think identification is mandatory for the process of liberation from suffering? The 8-fold path advices "move away from all identification"Helps you to identify what's happening in meditation.
This is how I read it. Pl. tell me I am wrong.
You continued
Does abhidhmma teach that there is aWhat you're experiencing, gives a name to it.
You continued"You experiencing?"
It is indeed nice to know, but how does the abhidhamma explain the gap between the nice knowing and the end of suffering?The details of the proximate cause, manifestation, etc are quite nice to know.
I appreciate OP's question and those who attempt to answer it.
Thanks Dearest DiamondNgXZ, for that answer.
Love
PS. As OP wrote "I too come in peace and would ilke to hear as many positive replies as possible. Cheers!"
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Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Part of a beginner's path to meditation is the unfamiliarity with the mind, so having a map, a guideline some names to point oh this is that, is helpful.Pulsar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:35 pm DiamondNgXZ wroteYou are referring to identification. Does abhidhamma think identification is mandatory for the process of liberation from suffering? The 8-fold path advices "move away from all identification"Helps you to identify what's happening in meditation.
This is how I read it. Pl. tell me I am wrong.
You continuedDoes abhidhmma teach that there is aWhat you're experiencing, gives a name to it.You continued"You experiencing?"It is indeed nice to know, but how does the abhidhamma explain the gap between the nice knowing and the end of suffering?The details of the proximate cause, manifestation, etc are quite nice to know.
I appreciate OP's question and those who attempt to answer it.
Thanks Dearest DiamondNgXZ, for that answer.
Love
PS. As OP wrote "I too come in peace and would ilke to hear as many positive replies as possible. Cheers!"
On the 10 rights, Noble 8fold path leads to right knowledge, then to right liberation. When you see things as they really are, impermanent, suffering, not self, you become disillusioned, passion fades away, with the fading of passion, there's liberation. With liberation, there's knowledge of liberation.
Meditation is all about putting the right causes to produce stillness which is the cause for seeing things as they really are, not another game where will power is used to control the mind.
Re: Can Abhidhamma assist in my practice? How?
Found a paper regarding how Abhidhamma Patthana apply in practice.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... SDtbPm-Vl1
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... SDtbPm-Vl1
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false