Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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karuna_murti
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Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by karuna_murti »

Hi Bhante Dhammanando, Hi all,

I was discussing Buddhagosa Arahanthood with my friend. He said that in Visuddhimagga, Bhadantacariya Buddhagosa expressed His aspiration to meet Ariya Metteya, while I remember Bhante Dhammanando once said it is put in Visuddhimagga by those who goes against Buddhagosa.

Can you tell me where the source of what you said, Bhante? Or anyone know where the source is?

If Buddhagosa's aspiration to meet Ariya Metteya is an addition, how can we say Visuddhimaga is a valid Atthakatha?

Best Regards.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Karuna,
karuna_murti wrote:I was discussing Buddhagosa Arahanthood with my friend. He said that in Visuddhimagga, Bhadantacariya Buddhagosa expressed His aspiration to meet Ariya Metteya, while I remember Bhante Dhammanando once said it is put in Visuddhimagga by those who goes against Buddhagosa.
I didn't say that. I said that the aspiration to meet Metteyya is expressed by some Sinhalese scribe or editor, not by Buddhaghosa himself. That's why the Metteyya aspiration isn't found in the Burmese edition and why in the concluding verses the text switches from the first person to the third person.

Buddhaghosa's aspiration is:
  • What store of merit has been gained by me
    Desiring establishment in this Good Dhamma
    In doing this, accepting the suggestion
    Of the venerable Sanghapāla,
    One born into the line of famous elders
    Dwelling within the Mahāvihāra,
    A true Vibhajjavādin, who is wise,
    And lives in pure simplicity, devoted
    To discipline's observance and to practice,
    Whose mind the virtuous qualities of patience,
    Mildness, lovingkindness, and so on, grace —
    By the power of that store of merit
    May every being prosper happily.
    And now just as the Path of Purification,
    With eight and fifty recitation sections
    In the text, has herewith been completed
    Without impediment, so may all those
    Who in the world depend on what is good
    Glad-hearted soon succeed without delay!
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Eko Care
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Eko Care »

karuna_murti wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:45 am anyone know where the source is?
Colophons of Visuddhimagga
Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:56 pm Colophons of Visuddhimagga

Modern critics who attempt to despise the Buddhaghosa Thera, often refer to the epilogue and colophon at the end of the Visuddhimagga.

There is a long sentence which praises Acariya Buddhagosa and Mahavihara at the end of the Visuddhimagga.
Ven. Nanamoli's Visuddhimagga Tranlation:
[POSTSCRIPT]
This Path of Purification was made by the elder who is adorned with supreme and pure faith, wisdom and energy, in whom are gathered a concourse of upright,gentle, etc., qualities due to the practice of virtue, who is capable of delving into and fathoming the views of his own and others’ creeds, who is possessed of keenness of understanding, who is strong in unerring knowledge of the Master’s Dispensation as divided into three Piþakas with their commentaries, a great expounder, gifted with sweet and noble speech that springs from the ease born of perfection of the vocal instrument, a speaker of what is appropriately said, a superlative speaker, a great poet, an ornament in the lineage of the elders who dwell in the Great Monastery, and who are shining lights in the lineage of elders with unblemished enlightenment in the superhuman states that are embellished with the special qualities of the six kinds of direct-knowledge and the categories of discrimination, who has abundant purified wit, who bears the name Buddhaghosa conferred by the venerable ones, and who should be called “of Morandacetaka.”
And the critics say that "It's not good to praise oneself like that".

Next to that, there is a verse which says the author of the verse wish to meet Metteyya Buddha.
Ven. Nanamoli's Visuddhimagga Tranlation:
[The following verses are only in Sinhalese texts:]
By the performance of such merit
As has been gained by me through this
And any other still in hand
So may I in my next becoming
Behold the joys of Távatiísá,
Glad in the qualities of virtue
And unattached to sense desires.
By having reached the first fruition,
And having in my last life seen
Metteyya, Lord of Sages, Highest
Of persons in the World, and
Helper Delighting in all beings’ welfare,
And heard that Holy One proclaim
The Teaching of the Noble Dhamma,
May I grace the Victor’s Dispensation
By realizing its highest fruit.
And the critics say that "he wished to meet the Metteyya Buddha without believing in Visuddhimagga he himself had written."
“Even Buddhaghosa did not really believe that Theravada practice could lead to Nirvana.His Visuddhimagga is supposed to be a detailed, step by step guide to enlightenment. And yet in the postscript […] he says he hopes that the merit he has earned by writing the Vishuddhimagga will allow him to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (Maitreya) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment.”
Source: The Broken Buddha, by Ven. S. Dhammika
Ven. Dhammanado:
Ven. Dhammika is making the common mistake of confusing Buddhaghosa’s colophon with that of the scribal copyist. The former dedicates the the merit of composing the Visuddhimagga to the happiness of all beings. It’s the scribe, not Buddhaghosa, who wants to go to heaven and later meet Metteyya.
Ven. Sujato:
In any case, the passage that expresses a wish to be reborn with Metteyya has multiple indications that it is a later addition, probably a scribal remark by a copyist.

It is only found in Sinhalese manuscripts
It doesn’t identify Buddhaghosa at all, merely saying “through the merit I have gained by this”.
It appears after the rather elaborate praise of Buddhaghosa, which itself appears to be a later addition (it’s not good form to praise oneself in this way).
It is right at the end, exactly where a copyist’s scribal mark would be added
This belief is implicitly rejected in the text itself (Vism 1.135)
King Parakramabahu II:
"the epilogue/colophon is written by Acariya Buddhagosa's student venerable Buddhamitta.
King Parakramabahu II of Kingdom of Dambadeniya had written a Sinhala glossary (Sannaya) to Visuddhimagga within 1234 to 1269CE .
It is called Visuddhimárga-mahásannaya or Parákramabáhu-sannaya.
Ven. Nanamoli's Visuddhimagga Bibliography:
Sinhala: Visuddhimárga-mahásanne, ed. Ratanapala Medhankara et al, 2 vols., Kalutara, 1949. (Also called Parákramabáhu-sannaya. A Pali-Sinhala
paraphrase composed by King Pandita Parákramabáhu II in the 13th cent. CE.)
  • The king had mentioned the epilogue starting from "This Path of Purification was made by ..." an onwards as the addition of venerable Buddhamitta.
  • Furthermore the king had stated why the name of Acariya Buddhagosa is mentioned as "who bears the name Buddhaghosa conferred by the venerable ones ("garuhi"=by the teachers/venerable ones" in this epilogue. The king had said this is because the student-monk can't mention the teacher-monk's name directly. (A convention practiced by Venerable Ananda towards his teacher Venerable Mahakassapa and said to be practiced by Sri Lankan forest monks even in the present day).
This has embarrassed modern critics who attempt to despise the Buddhaghosa Thera in a petty way.

Colophons of Acariya Buddhaghosa
SarathW
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by SarathW »

Dhammanando wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:30 pm Hi Karuna,
karuna_murti wrote:I was discussing Buddhagosa Arahanthood with my friend. He said that in Visuddhimagga, Bhadantacariya Buddhagosa expressed His aspiration to meet Ariya Metteya, while I remember Bhante Dhammanando once said it is put in Visuddhimagga by those who goes against Buddhagosa.
I didn't say that. I said that the aspiration to meet Metteyya is expressed by some Sinhalese scribe or editor, not by Buddhaghosa himself. That's why the Metteyya aspiration isn't found in the Burmese edition and why in the concluding verses the text switches from the first person to the third person.

Buddhaghosa's aspiration is:
  • What store of merit has been gained by me
    Desiring establishment in this Good Dhamma
    In doing this, accepting the suggestion
    Of the venerable Sanghapāla,
    One born into the line of famous elders
    Dwelling within the Mahāvihāra,
    A true Vibhajjavādin, who is wise,
    And lives in pure simplicity, devoted
    To discipline's observance and to practice,
    Whose mind the virtuous qualities of patience,
    Mildness, lovingkindness, and so on, grace —
    By the power of that store of merit
    May every being prosper happily.
    And now just as the Path of Purification,
    With eight and fifty recitation sections
    In the text, has herewith been completed
    Without impediment, so may all those
    Who in the world depend on what is good
    Glad-hearted soon succeed without delay!
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
The way I understand that Arahant does not seek merits.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Eko Care
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Eko Care »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:32 am The way I understand that Arahant does not seek merits.
I don't think many of the classical Theravadins believe that ven. Buddhaghosa was an Arahant.
Yet they believe he is exceptional and had preserved the theories of ancient Sihala Atthakatha of Mahavihara.
SarathW
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by SarathW »

Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:49 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:32 am The way I understand that Arahant does not seek merits.
I don't think many of the classical Theravadins believe that ven. Buddhaghosa was an Arahant.
Yet they believe he is exceptional and had preserved the theories of ancient Sihala Atthakatha of Mahavihara.
Agree.
I don't doubt it.
But my problem is if Buddhaghosa is not an Arahant, what is the chance for me!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Eko Care
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Eko Care »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:51 am
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:49 am I don't think many of the classical Theravadins believe that ven. Buddhaghosa was an Arahant.
Yet they believe he is exceptional and had preserved the theories of ancient Sihala Atthakatha of Mahavihara.
Agree.
I don't doubt it.
But my problem is if Buddhaghosa is not an Arahant, what is the chance for me!
:cry:
Fortunately ven. Buddhagosa ascribe the body/core of his works to ancient arahants.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:32 am The way I understand that Arahant does not seek merits.
The actions of arahants generate no new merit, but that doesn't mean that they can't make use of their accumulated store of merit to make efficacious saccakiriyās. As, for example, in the case of Angulimāla and the woman in labour.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
SarathW
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by SarathW »

Dhammanando wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:51 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:32 am The way I understand that Arahant does not seek merits.
The actions of arahants generate no new merit, but that doesn't mean that they can't make use of their accumulated store of merit to make efficacious saccakiriyās. As, for example, in the case of Angulimāla and the woman in labour.
Agree.
Arahants have Kiriya Citta as per Abhidhamma.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Dhammavamsa
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Dhammavamsa »

I believe Bhandantacariya Buddhaghosa was at least a Sotapanna.

Because I read the introduction passage in Visuddhimagga by Bhikkhu Nanamoli, stated that:

"From Adhikaram Early History of Buddhism in Ceylon, pp.3 and 86 -

...so he (Buddhaghosa-to-be) took the Going Forth, since he was interested in the system, and he learnt the three Pitakas, after which he believed "This is the only way" (M. i. 55). Because his speech (ghosa) was profound (voice was deep) like that of the Enlightened One (Buddha), they call him Buddhaghosa, so that like the Enlightened One he might be voiced over the surface of the Earth..."

From this we know that Buddhaghosa was a pious Buddhist and established unshakeable confidence towards Dhamma.

But I wouldn't surprise if Bhandantacariya Buddhaghosa not an Arahant.
As paramitas need to be fulfilled before achieving it, not only in a single lifetime but many (depends on how diligent the practitioner is).

:anjali:
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Dhammavamsa
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Dhammavamsa »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:51 am
Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:49 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:32 am The way I understand that Arahant does not seek merits.
I don't think many of the classical Theravadins believe that ven. Buddhaghosa was an Arahant.
Yet they believe he is exceptional and had preserved the theories of ancient Sihala Atthakatha of Mahavihara.
Agree.
I don't doubt it.
But my problem is if Buddhaghosa is not an Arahant, what is the chance for me!
May I know what is the common view of Sri Lanka theras on Ven. Buddhaghosa's attainment?

If read from the postscript:
This Path of Purification was made by the elder who is adorned with supreme and pure faith, wisdom and energy, in whom are gathered a concourse of upright, gentle, etc., qualities due to the practice of virtue, who is capable of delving into and fathoming the views of his own and others’ creeds, who is possessed of keenness of understanding, who is strong in unerring knowledge of the Master’s Dispensation as divided into three Pitakas with their commentaries, a great expounder, gifted with sweet and noble speech that springs from the ease born of perfection of the vocal instrument, a speaker of what is appropriately said, a superlative speaker, a great poet, an ornament in the lineage of the elders who dwell in the Great Monastery, and who are shining lights in the lineage of elders with unblemished enlightenment in the superhuman states that are embellished with the special qualities of the six kinds of direct-knowledge and the categories of discrimination, who has abundant purified wit, who bears the name Buddhaghosa conferred by the venerable ones, and who should be called “of Morandacetaka".

May it continue here to show The way to purity of virtue, etc., For clansmen seeking out the means To ferry them across the worlds For just as long as in this world Shall last that name “Enlightened One,” By which, thus purified in mind, Is known the Greatest Sage, World Chief.

As for the underline part, is it referred to the Elders in Mahavihara or Ven. Buddhaghosa?
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zan
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by zan »

Someone needs to update the wikipedia pages on Buddhaghosa and the Visuddhimagga. Both contain this statement which is based on attributing a statement to Buddhaghosa that he apparently didn't write:
...Buddhaghosa did not believe that following the practice set forth in the Visuddhimagga will really lead him to Nirvana, basing himself on the postscript to the Visuddhimagga:[23]

Even Buddhaghosa did not really believe that Theravada practice could lead to Nirvana. His Visuddhimagga is supposed to be a detailed, step by step guide to enlightenment. And yet in the postscript [...] he says he hopes that the merit he has earned by writing the Vishuddhimagga will allow him to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (Maitreya) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment.[23][note 2]
I notated it once but it was flagged "original research?" and then removed, even though I was quoting the print Visuddhimagga. So someone who understands Wikipedia's rules needs to step up and fix it.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Ontheway
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by Ontheway »

zan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:07 pm Someone needs to update the wikipedia pages on Buddhaghosa and the Visuddhimagga. Both contain this statement which is based on attributing a statement to Buddhaghosa that he apparently didn't write:
...Buddhaghosa did not believe that following the practice set forth in the Visuddhimagga will really lead him to Nirvana, basing himself on the postscript to the Visuddhimagga:[23]

Even Buddhaghosa did not really believe that Theravada practice could lead to Nirvana. His Visuddhimagga is supposed to be a detailed, step by step guide to enlightenment. And yet in the postscript [...] he says he hopes that the merit he has earned by writing the Vishuddhimagga will allow him to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (Maitreya) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment.[23][note 2]
I notated it once but it was flagged "original research?" and then removed, even though I was quoting the print Visuddhimagga. So someone who understands Wikipedia's rules needs to step up and fix it.
Nowadays, unfortunately, Bhandatacariya Buddhaghosa Thera's works weren't famous and certainly not having a place in many new age Buddhists' heart. No point amending Wikipedia since seldom people will trust Wikipedia's info and it will soon change by others too.

In the past, I was also led by a certain monk and Buddhist teacher (during my short time in Samanera program) to believe that Visuddhimagga contain wrong teachings, so even I got the nice hard cover book of Visuddhi Magga, I just put it aside in some unwanted drawer and let it be with dust for many years.

All those years, when I was eager to look for gurus or ajahns, reading this booklet and that booklet, it caused me much confusion and frustration on deep Dhamma teachings. Because one single topic such as Paticca Samuppada, I can find many versions of explanation. When asked which is right, all of them said they are the correct ones.

Then one day, I read the story of Sri Lankan Buddhism history and learn how the lineage of Theravada comes into existence. And once again I read about Mahavihara and Arahant Mahinda Thera, and then Buddhaghosa Thera. There I start pick up my Visuddhimagga and read carefully, while making comparison with Suttanta and Abhidhamma. Till today, Visuddhimagga is been very helpful to me and Bhandatacariya Buddhaghosa Thera really a great monk.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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confusedlayman
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by confusedlayman »

Im convinced buddhaghosa was arhant with 6 knowledge

I also support ajhan brahm jhana
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
zan
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Re: Buddhagosa Arahanthood

Post by zan »

Ontheway wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:33 pm
zan wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:07 pm Someone needs to update the wikipedia pages on Buddhaghosa and the Visuddhimagga. Both contain this statement which is based on attributing a statement to Buddhaghosa that he apparently didn't write:
...Buddhaghosa did not believe that following the practice set forth in the Visuddhimagga will really lead him to Nirvana, basing himself on the postscript to the Visuddhimagga:[23]

Even Buddhaghosa did not really believe that Theravada practice could lead to Nirvana. His Visuddhimagga is supposed to be a detailed, step by step guide to enlightenment. And yet in the postscript [...] he says he hopes that the merit he has earned by writing the Vishuddhimagga will allow him to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (Maitreya) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment.[23][note 2]
I notated it once but it was flagged "original research?" and then removed, even though I was quoting the print Visuddhimagga. So someone who understands Wikipedia's rules needs to step up and fix it.
Nowadays, unfortunately, Bhandatacariya Buddhaghosa Thera's works weren't famous and certainly not having a place in many new age Buddhists' heart. No point amending Wikipedia since seldom people will trust Wikipedia's info and it will soon change by others too.

In the past, I was also led by a certain monk and Buddhist teacher (during my short time in Samanera program) to believe that Visuddhimagga contain wrong teachings, so even I got the nice hard cover book of Visuddhi Magga, I just put it aside in some unwanted drawer and let it be with dust for many years.

All those years, when I was eager to look for gurus or ajahns, reading this booklet and that booklet, it caused me much confusion and frustration on deep Dhamma teachings. Because one single topic such as Paticca Samuppada, I can find many versions of explanation. When asked which is right, all of them said they are the correct ones.

Then one day, I read the story of Sri Lankan Buddhism history and learn how the lineage of Theravada comes into existence. And once again I read about Mahavihara and Arahant Mahinda Thera, and then Buddhaghosa Thera. There I start pick up my Visuddhimagga and read carefully, while making comparison with Suttanta and Abhidhamma. Till today, Visuddhimagga is been very helpful to me and Bhandatacariya Buddhaghosa Thera really a great monk.
:goodpost:
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
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