Wrong mindfulness

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dhammarelax
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Wrong mindfulness

Post by dhammarelax »

Dear Friends

Has anyone a sutta referrence that explains what "Wrong mindfulness" is?

MN 117: In one of right speech, wrong speech is abolished…In one of right action, wrong action is abolished…In one of right livelihood, wrong livelihood is abolished …In one of right effort, wrong effort is abolished…In one of right mindfulness, wrong mindfulness is abolished…In one of right concentration, wrong concentration is abolished…In one of right knowledge, wrong knowledge is abolished…In one of right deliverance, wrong deliverance is abolished, and the many evil unwholesome states that originate with wrong deliverance as condition are also abolished, and the many wholesome states that originate with right deliverance as condition come to fulfilment by development.

smile all the time
dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5
SarathW
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by SarathW »

Noble Eightfold Path to be analyse as a whole.
Hence wrong view is the forerunner for wrong mindfulness.

==========
And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no contemplatives or brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
Last edited by SarathW on Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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retrofuturist
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sarath,

Well said. Right Mindfulness is founded on Right View.
AN 10.121 wrote:Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.

For one of right view, bhikkhus, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up. For one of right concentration, right knowledge springs up. For one of right knowledge, right deliverance springs up.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
paul
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by paul »

A technical but important point, there is a case where a wholesome mind state doesn't include Right View, namely where Right Effort is changing wrong view to right view, which could cover quite an expanse of time and is a significant activity in the practice:
"One makes an effort for the abandoning of wrong view & for entering into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.[2] Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view."
[2] Notice that mindfulness plays an active role here and with all the path factors. It is not simply a receptive acceptance of wrong and right views. Instead — in its canonical sense of keeping something in mind — it keeps remembering to abandon the factors of the wrong path, and to enter and remain in the factors of the right path.
MN 117 (Thanissaro)
dhammarelax
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by dhammarelax »

Paul Davy wrote:Greetings Sarath,

Well said. Right Mindfulness is founded on Right View.
AN 10.121 wrote:Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.

For one of right view, bhikkhus, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up. For one of right concentration, right knowledge springs up. For one of right knowledge, right deliverance springs up.
Metta,
Paul. :)
So it would be rememebering to act upon wrong view?
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5
SarathW
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by SarathW »

A person with right view see (mindful) Rupa, Vedana etc in terms of impermanence, Unsatisfactory and not-self.
A person with wrong view see Rupa, Vedana etc, in terms of permanent, satisfactory, and self.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Alexander____
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by Alexander____ »

paul wrote:A technical but important point, there is a case where a wholesome mind state doesn't include Right View, namely where Right Effort is changing wrong view to right view, which could cover quite an expanse of time and is a significant activity in the practice:
"One makes an effort for the abandoning of wrong view & for entering into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.[2] Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view."
[2] Notice that mindfulness plays an active role here and with all the path factors. It is not simply a receptive acceptance of wrong and right views. Instead — in its canonical sense of keeping something in mind — it keeps remembering to abandon the factors of the wrong path, and to enter and remain in the factors of the right path.
MN 117 (Thanissaro)
I have found this passage confusing when I first encountered it too as how can right view be circling around right view itself?
paul
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by paul »

It means that the function of Right Effort and Right Mindfulness is to continue to purify Right View, a progressive process. It is better to think of Right Effort as being the heart of the Path.
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bodom
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by bodom »

Paul Davy wrote:Greetings Sarath,

Well said. Right Mindfulness is founded on Right View.
AN 10.121 wrote:Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.

For one of right view, bhikkhus, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up. For one of right concentration, right knowledge springs up. For one of right knowledge, right deliverance springs up.
Metta,
Paul. :)
To go along with the above:

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks, "Monks!"

"Yes, lord," the monks responded.

The Blessed One said, "Monks, ignorance is the leader in the attainment of unskillful qualities, followed by lack of conscience & lack of concern. In an unknowledgeable person, immersed in ignorance, wrong view arises. In one of wrong view, wrong resolve arises. In one of wrong resolve, wrong speech... In one of wrong speech, wrong action... In one of wrong action, wrong livelihood... In one of wrong livelihood, wrong effort... In one of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness... In one of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration arises.

"Clear knowing is the leader in the attainment of skillful qualities, followed by conscience & concern. In a knowledgeable person, immersed in clear knowing, right view arises. In one of right view, right resolve arises. In one of right resolve, right speech... In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration arises."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:namaste:
This is our foundation: to have sati, recollection, and sampajañña, self-awareness, whether standing, walking, sitting, or reclining. Whatever arises, just leave it be, don’t cling to it. Whether it’s like or dislike, happiness or suffering, doubt or certainty... Don’t try to label everything, just know it. See that all the things that arise in the mind are simply sensations. They are transient. They arise, exist and cease. That’s all there is to them, they have no self or being, they are neither ‘us’ nor ‘them’. None of them are worthy of clinging to.

- Ajahn Chah
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Dhammanando
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by Dhammanando »

dhammarelax wrote:Has anyone a sutta referrence that explains what "Wrong mindfulness" is?
In the Suttas wrong mindfulness is mentioned but not really defined. The Majjhima Commentary, however, understands it to be the unskilful recalling of things past, as described in the Anuttariya Sutta:

“Here, someone recollects the gain of a son, a wife, or wealth; or else they recollect various kinds of gain; or else they recollect an ascetic or brahmin of wrong views, of wrong practice. There is this kind of recollection; this I do not deny. But this kind of recollection is low, common, worldly, ignoble, and unbeneficial; it does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, peace, direct knowledge, enlightenment, and nibbāna.”
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
pulga
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Re: Wrong mindfulness

Post by pulga »

Suppose, Tissa, there were two men: one unskilled in the path, the other skilled in the path. The man unskilled in the path would ask the skilled man a question about the path, and the latter would say: ‘Come, good man, this is the path. Go along it a little way and you will see a fork in the road. Avoid the left-hand branch and take the right-hand branch. Go a little further and you will see a dense thicket. Go a little further and you will see a vast marshy swamp. Go a little further and you will see a steep precipice. Go a little further and you will see a delightful expanse of level ground.’

I have made up this simile, Tissa, in order to convey a meaning. This here is the meaning: ‘The man unskilled in the path’: this is a designation for the worldling. ‘The man skilled in the path’: this is a designation for the Tathagata, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One. ‘The forked road’: this is a designation for doubt. ‘The left-hand branch’: this is a designation for the wrong eightfold path; that is, wrong view … wrong concentration. ‘The right-hand branch’: this is a designation for the Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view … right concentration. ‘The dense thicket’: this is a designation for ignorance. ‘The vast marshy swamp’: this is a designation for sensual pleasures. ‘The steep precipice’: this is a designation for despair due to anger. ‘The delightful expanse of level ground’: this is a designation for Nibbāna. SN 22.84
Doubt of course is only eradicated upon the attainment of Stream-entry.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
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