Sex is always unwholesome

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Dan74
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dan74 »

LeeAnnet wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:07 pm It's the first time I've heard that.
Hang around more and you'll have a lot more "firsts".

:shrug:
_/|\_
LeeAnnet
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by LeeAnnet »

Honestly, I don't know about you, but even my doctor tells me to have sex.
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cappuccino
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by cappuccino »

The Buddha said:

“there is nothing greater than the desire for sex.

Fortunately, it is one of a kind.

If there were something else like it, no one in the world would be able to cultivate the Way.”
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cappuccino
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by cappuccino »

The heavenly spirits, desiring to destroy the Buddha’s resolve, offered Jade women to him.

The Buddha said:

“Skin-bags full of filth. What are you doing here? Go away, I am not interested.”

Then, the heavenly spirits asked most respectfully about the meaning of the Way.

The Buddha explained it for them and they immediately obtained the fruition of Sotāpanna.”
Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dhammanando »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:35 pm The Buddha said:

“there is nothing greater than the desire for sex.


The source of this is an apocryphal sutra composed in China.

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/lo ... re/20175/4

I doubt the historical Buddha ever said such a thing, for it's so obviously empirically false. There isn't any desire that's intrinsically stronger than all other desires.

I recall first encountering this fake Buddha quote in one of the letters of Ñāṇavīra. As I recall, he quotes it approvingly, though admits that he doesn't know where it came from.

Then in another letter he remarks:

Of course, listening to Beethoven also is sensuality, but when you have said 'sex' you have said all. A man who can give up sex can give up Beethoven.


Funnily enough, when I first arrived at Wat Pa Ban Tard in 1985 I learned that there had been another English monk, also called Dhammanando, who had lived at the wat a few years before me. I was told that he was gay but luckily had a very low sex drive and so living in an all-male community was no problem for him. Nevertheless, in the end he disrobed. Apparently he had been a classical musician before he ordained and after a decade as a monk he finally decided (pace Ñāṇavīra) that he really couldn't live without Beethoven.
During vassa this year I shall be offline until the end of October.

Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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Dhammanando
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dhammanando »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:38 pm The heavenly spirits, desiring to destroy the Buddha’s resolve, offered Jade women to him.

The Buddha said:

“Skin-bags full of filth. What are you doing here? Go away, I am not interested.”

Then, the heavenly spirits asked most respectfully about the meaning of the Way.

The Buddha explained it for them and they immediately obtained the fruition of Sotāpanna.”
Please give a source when claiming to quote the Buddha.
During vassa this year I shall be offline until the end of October.

Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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cappuccino
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by cappuccino »

Dhammanando wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:44 pm I doubt the historical Buddha ever said such a thing, for it's so obviously empirically false. There isn't any desire that's intrinsically stronger than all other desires.
lust and aversion are difficult fetters


they define life
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cappuccino
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by cappuccino »

& movies
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SDC
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by SDC »

Has AN 4.159 been quoted yet?

”This body is produced by sex. The Buddha spoke of breaking off everything to do with sex.” -Sujato

”This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge”. - Thanissaro
Bundokji
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Bundokji »

As far as i know, classical Theravada maintained strong emphasis on dualities, unlike other schools or spiritual paths which utilized the concept of non-duality. Within the logic of dualities, everything is suspiciously an extreme with the Buddha's teachings presented as a middle that is invisible except to a few who were able to penetrate the deeper meanings of the teachings.

So, when one falls short of stream entry, not knowing the invisible middle path (absence dhamma eye), the practitioner must be having the wrong grasp and getting bitten whatever s/he does. The wrong grasp involves both extremes, sex and celibacy. However, through trial and error, one would begin to see that the logic of dualities digs deep into every aspect of human life. Dualities are inseparable from constructions, or the logic of constructions is based on opposing forces that appear to be designed to procreate and recreate. As such, to pick the sexual act and presenting it as warranting special treatment is harmful and a cause of fixation and obsession. I think its better to refrain from telling people what they should do or should not do with their genitalia. One can be celibate and a fool.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by befriend »

Anguttara nikaya book of ones obsession of the mind says this "bhikkhus I do not see even one other form that so obsesses the mind of a man as the form of a woman" and says also the other senses https://tipitaka.fandom.com/wiki/AN1.Th ... _Ones-ver2
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confusedlayman
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by confusedlayman »

befriend wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:50 pm Anguttara nikaya book of ones obsession of the mind says this "bhikkhus I do not see even one other form that so obsesses the mind of a man as the form of a woman" and says also the other senses https://tipitaka.fandom.com/wiki/AN1.Th ... _Ones-ver2
true ... buddha is speaker of truth and knower of everything that can be known... its nearly impossible to find truth speaker like him or his disciples in samsara... very lucky for us all to have faith in him at least level...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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LEOsteve
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by LEOsteve »

LeeAnnet wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:01 pm Honestly, I don't know about you, but even my doctor tells me to have sex.
My doctor told me that too...how can I comply with my doctor's wishes?
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dhammanando »

befriend wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:50 pm Anguttara nikaya book of ones obsession of the mind says this "bhikkhus I do not see even one other form that so obsesses the mind of a man as the form of a woman" and says also the other senses https://tipitaka.fandom.com/wiki/AN1.Th ... _Ones-ver2
Clearly this sutta is a neyyāttha teaching, for the form of a woman doesn't obsess the mind of a male homosexual, nor the form of a man the mind of a lesbian, nor the form of either sex the mind of an asexual.
During vassa this year I shall be offline until the end of October.

Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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cappuccino
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by cappuccino »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:45 am nor the form of either sex the mind of an asexual.
do experience attraction but with no desire for sexual intimacy
Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome.
- Arthur Ashe
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