the name of the sutra?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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Viachh
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the name of the sutra?

Post by Viachh »

Could you tell me the name of the sutra, which explains "listening, thinking, meditating", please.
Pulsar
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by Pulsar »

OP wrote
the name of the sutra, which explains "listening, thinking, meditating", please.
One sutra??? I am under the impression whole of Dhamma (Many suttas)
  • is about "listening" also can be interpreted as paying attention,
  • thinking, may also be interpreted as Dhammavicaya

and
  • meditating (every sutta that contains 8-fold path or ten) since each includes Samma Sati and Samma Samadhi.
Meditation may be interpreted in many ways. Samma Sati would be aspects mindfulness, the last foundation being the most, and Samma Samadhi being elegant presentation of Samma Sati, terminating in Upekhsa Sati Parisuddhi, that practiced over time leads to freedom from suffering. Nothing is overnight as the sutta on Adze Handle reminds us.
So if you wanted me to quote one sutta that would be "Adze Handle or the Ship". Or if you wanted me to quote a second sutta that would be "Putramansa" the most dramatic sutta in the canon...
That however does not mention the words "listening, thinking, meditating". But if you did not resort
to such, one would not even comprehend the drama involved in this sutta, a one page sutta
that leads one out of suffering.
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DooDoot
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by DooDoot »

Viachh wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:45 am Could you tell me the name of the sutra, which explains "listening, thinking, meditating", please.
I do not know any "sutra" however there is possibly these suttas, among many others:
Thus associating with good persons, becoming full, fills up hearing the good Dhamma. Hearing the good Dhamma, becoming full, fills up faith. Faith, becoming full, fills up careful attention. Careful attention, becoming full, fills up mindfulness and clear comprehension. Mindfulness and clear comprehension, becoming full, fill up restraint of the sense faculties. Restraint of the sense faculties, becoming full, fills up the three kinds of good conduct. The three kinds of good conduct, becoming full, fill up the four establishments of mindfulness. The four establishments of mindfulness, becoming full, fill up the seven factors of enlightenment. The seven factors of enlightenment, becoming full, fill up true knowledge and liberation. Thus there is nutriment for true knowledge and liberation, and in this way they become full.

https://suttacentral.net/an10.61/en/bodhi
When he has investigated him and has seen that he is purified from states based on delusion, then he places faith in him; filled with faith he visits him and pays respect to him; having paid respect to him, he gives ear; when he gives ear, he hears the Dhamma; having heard the Dhamma, he memorises it and examines the meaning of the teachings he has memorised; when he examines their meaning, he gains a reflective acceptance of those teachings; when he has gained a reflective acceptance of those teachings, zeal springs up; when zeal has sprung up, he applies his will; having applied his will, he scrutinises; having scrutinised, he strives; resolutely striving, he realises with the body the supreme truth and sees it by penetrating it with wisdom. In this way, Bhāradvāja, there is the discovery of truth; in this way one discovers truth; in this way we describe the discovery of truth. But as yet there is no final arrival at truth.”

“The final arrival at truth, Bhāradvāja, lies in the repetition, development, and cultivation of those same things. In this way, Bhāradvāja, there is the final arrival at truth; in this way one finally arrives at truth; in this way we describe the final arrival at truth.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn95/en/bodhi
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Viachh
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by Viachh »

Is there no such matrix in its pure form in the whole Theravada (sutras, abhidhamma, shastras)?
Pulsar
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by Pulsar »

OP asked
Is there no such matrix in its pure form in the whole Theravada (sutras, abhidhamma, shastras)?
I am no expert in Theravada abhidhamma, I have no idea what Theravada Shastra means?
Does anyone else know? As for Theravada pure form? do you mean the content of Sutta pitaka? Theravadins consider Sutta Pitaka as based on Buddha's teaching. Is it pure? I have no idea, certainly good enuf to show the way out of suffering.
After so many years of the passing away of the Founder, it is the best we have.
Sutta pitaka's parallels which Mahayanists favor? are very similar to what is in the sutta pitaka, except
sometimes they indicate a minuscule bias, based on the folks who compiled those.
Let me ask you "Is there such a matrix in its pure form in the whole Mahayana (sutras, abhidhamma, shastras)?
I am just curious.
Be Well :candle:
Caodemarte
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by Caodemarte »

Pulsar wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:49 pm OP asked
Is there no such matrix in its pure form in the whole Theravada (sutras, abhidhamma, shastras)?
I am no expert in Theravada abhidhamma, I have no idea what Theravada Shastra means?
Shastra is a Sanskrit word meaning "precept, rules, manual, compendium, book or treatise" in a general sense. The word is generally used as a suffix for technical or specialized knowledge in Indian literature. In this sense, there are many Theravada commentaries that could be called shastras if you were using Sanskrit. I don't know what general term, if any, is used in Pali
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DooDoot
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by DooDoot »

Viachh wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:52 pm Is there no such matrix in its pure form in the whole Theravada (sutras, abhidhamma, shastras)?
It appears u disapproved of my answer? Were not the suttas I quoted suitable? :shrug:
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Viachh
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by Viachh »

Doodoot wrote:
"Thus associating with good persons, becoming full, fills up hearing the good Dhamma. Hearing the good Dhamma, becoming full, fills up faith."
Isn't it weird that the word hearing is used here instead of "listening to"?
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DooDoot
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by DooDoot »

Viachh wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:41 am Isn't it weird that the word hearing is used here instead of "listening to"?
No... he gives ear (sotaṃ odahat), he hears the Dhamma...
Let those with ears to hear decide their faith.
Ye sotavanto pamuñcantu saddhaṃ;

https://suttacentral.net/mn26/en/sujato#21.7
Their disciples do want to listen. They pay attention and apply their minds to understand. They don’t proceed having turned away from the teacher’s instruction.

Tassa sāvakā sussūsanti, sotaṃ odahanti, aññā cittaṃ upaṭṭhapenti, na ca vokkamma satthusāsanā vattanti.

https://suttacentral.net/dn12/en/sujato#17.4
to apply, in phrase sotaṃ odahati to listen

https://suttacentral.net/define/odahati
sāvaka

a hearer; a disciple

https://suttacentral.net/define/s%C4%81vaka
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skandha
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by skandha »

Viachh wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:45 am Could you tell me the name of the sutra, which explains "listening, thinking, meditating", please.
I think you may be referring to:-

(1) wisdom through listening/learning - sutamaya paññā
(2) wisdom through thinking - cintāmaya paññā
(3) wisdom through meditation - bhāvanāmaya paññā

Saṅgītisutta
Aparāpi tisso paññā
Another three kinds of wisdom:

cintāmayā paññā, sutamayā paññā, bhāvanāmayā paññā.
— wisdom produced by thought, learning, and meditation.
A true master of knowledge has passed beyond all that is known and become dispassionate towards all vedanās.
- Sn 529
Viachh
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Re: the name of the sutra?

Post by Viachh »

skandha wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:42 am
Viachh wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:45 am Could you tell me the name of the sutra, which explains "listening, thinking, meditating", please.
I think you may be referring to:-

(1) wisdom through listening/learning - sutamaya paññā
(2) wisdom through thinking - cintāmaya paññā
(3) wisdom through meditation - bhāvanāmaya paññā

Saṅgītisutta
Aparāpi tisso paññā
Another three kinds of wisdom:

cintāmayā paññā, sutamayā paññā, bhāvanāmayā paññā.
— wisdom produced by thought, learning, and meditation.
Does listening generate thinking and thinking generate meditation? Or does listening generate wisdom through listening? Then what is this wisdom through listening?
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