fruits of giving

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TRobinson465
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fruits of giving

Post by TRobinson465 »

Hello,

Two things.

I remember someone showing me a chart about the fruits of giving and the weight of each. For instance, animals > immoral humans > humans who keep 5 precepts etc. Does anyone know where this is from and where i can find it? I am not talking about the Velama sutta, which I am already aware of. I think theres some Thai textbook or commentary that weighs the fruits from animal to the Sangha or something.

Second, is anyone aware of any commentaries or texts that explain the fruits of giving dhamma? Naturally this is hard to find in the suttas since the people who generally gave dhamma in the suttas were arahants anyways. So the fruits were irrelavent to them. I am curious if any such details exist on the results of giving dhamma at all.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
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cappuccino
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by cappuccino »

TRobinson465
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by TRobinson465 »

I actually ended up finding the text I was looking for on my own. Here it is if anyone finds it beneficial.
Tatr' Ānanda, tiracchānagate dānaṁ datvā
Here, Ānanda, having given a gift to an animal

sataguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a hundred-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

puthujjanadussīle dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to an unvirtuous ordinary person

sahassaguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a thousand-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

puthujjanasīlavante dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to a virtuous ordinary person

satasahassaguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a hundred-thousand-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

bāhirake kāmesu vītarāge dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to an outsider who is without passion for sensual desires

koṭisatasahassaguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a hundred-thousand times a hundred-thousand-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

sotāpattiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanne dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to one who has entered upon the way to experiencing the fruit of Stream-Entry

asaṅkheyyā appameyyā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā.
an immeasurable, unlimited offering is to be expected (in return).

Ko pana vādo Sotāpanne?
What to say about a Stream-Enterer?

Ko pana vādo Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanne?
What to say about one who has entered upon the way to experiencing the fruit of Once-Returning?
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/ ... PJJnQ4Dvvw
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
tamdrin
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by tamdrin »

It seems that you are trying to find a way to "get the most bang for your buck" so to speak in terms of offerings. Where do you live? Here in Thailand I have met several monks who I believe must be ariyas. They never said this but it becomes apparent after being around them for a bit.
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confusedlayman
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by confusedlayman »

tamdrin wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:39 am It seems that you are trying to find a way to "get the most bang for your buck" so to speak in terms of offerings. Where do you live? Here in Thailand I have met several monks who I believe must be ariyas. They never said this but it becomes apparent after being around them for a bit.
I want to donate lots to monestry but i need karma to realize nibbana
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
TRobinson465
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by TRobinson465 »

tamdrin wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:39 am It seems that you are trying to find a way to "get the most bang for your buck" so to speak in terms of offerings. Where do you live? Here in Thailand I have met several monks who I believe must be ariyas. They never said this but it becomes apparent after being around them for a bit.
I live in the US. It was more out of curiousity than looking for bang for my buck, even though yes, i do believe that is important as well. But actually, if you read the rest of that sutta it says giving to the Sangha as a whole is actually superior to giving even to an ariya.
Tesu dussīlesu Saṅghaṁ uddissa dānaṁ dassanti
But even a gift that is given to those unvirtuous ones because of the Community

tadā pāhaṁ Ānanda Saṅghagataṁ dakkhiṇaṁ asaṅkheyyaṁ appameyyaṁ vadāmi.
at that time, Ānanda, will be an immeasureable, unlimited offering to the Community, I say. 26

Na tvevāhaṁ Ānanda kenaci pariyāyena,
I certainly in no way, Ānanda,

Saṅghagatāya dakkhiṇāya pāṭipuggalikaṁ dānaṁ 27 mahapphalataraṁ vadāmi.
say that a gift to an individual can have greater fruit than an offering to a Community.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
coconut
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by coconut »

Your intentions are a bit misplaced, while it is good to give to monks, that is not the intention behind the Buddhas words in the two suttas you referenced.

The Buddha ends those suttas meaning that attaining right view yourself is better than giving to someone with right view.

Also, the Buddha said that not everyone will accept the true dhamma, that means there will always be people with wrong view.

That means those with wrong view do the dirty work (killing animals, being soldiers, etc.), which the mundane right view people benefit from (buying meat, living in a safe society), and give to those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Therefore those with mundane right view (usually lay people) buy from wrong view (hunters and farmers) to feed those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Still the moral of the teaching is that your effort should strive for attaining Supermundane right view by carefully studying the four noble truths and dependent origination, and then confirming it in a jhana.

You have to start with right view by studying and understanding dependent origination and the four noble truths properly, and to do that you should study the first 4 nikayas.
TRobinson465
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Re: fruits of giving

Post by TRobinson465 »

coconut wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:09 am Your intentions are a bit misplaced, while it is good to give to monks, that is not the intention behind the Buddhas words in the two suttas you referenced.

The Buddha ends those suttas meaning that attaining right view yourself is better than giving to someone with right view.

Also, the Buddha said that not everyone will accept the true dhamma, that means there will always be people with wrong view.

That means those with wrong view do the dirty work (killing animals, being soldiers, etc.), which the mundane right view people benefit from (buying meat, living in a safe society), and give to those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Therefore those with mundane right view (usually lay people) buy from wrong view (hunters and farmers) to feed those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Still the moral of the teaching is that your effort should strive for attaining Supermundane right view by carefully studying the four noble truths and dependent origination, and then confirming it in a jhana.

You have to start with right view by studying and understanding dependent origination and the four noble truths properly, and to do that you should study the first 4 nikayas.
I agree with everything you said, like i said above, I was looking for the text more out of curiosity than looking for a fertile field of merit. For sure supramundane right view is more fruitful than any kind of offering one can make (although people should still practice giving offerings).
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
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