heart base

[robertk]

This is edited from letters I wrote 20 years ago on heart base.

A friend wrote to me that the reason they can’t believe in the Atthakatta (commentaries) is because they say the heart is the base for consciousness. they wrote:
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On the other hand, Buddaghosa CONFIRMS in Visuddimagga that the seat of the Mind is Heart. Now we know, this cannot be possible, through lots of knowledge we have gained on the functions of the heart and the brain and the associated central nervous system. If the heart is the seat of the consciousness, what happens during open heart surgeries where the heart is kept inactive for hours before activating by an electric shock at the end of the operation.

On the other hand, what consciousness a person will have who receives a new heart from another dead person?
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Robert: All of us are much conditioned by an age where scientific discoveries seem so testable and provable. It is natural that doubts arise on this matter. The Visuddhimagga (viii, 111)says about hadaya-vatthu [heart base]: they describe the heart and then note that inside the heart “there is a hollow the size of a punnaga seeds bed where half a pastata measure of blood is kept, with which as their support the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur.”
Note that it is not the heart itself that is the hadaya-vatthu NOR is it the blood inside the heart but rather as the Paramatthamanjusa (see vis.xiii note 5 ) says “the heart basis occurs with this blood as its support”. You see the actual hadaya-vatthu is incredibly sublime – in scientific measure it wouldn’t even amount to a tiny fraction of a gram. It might even be so refined as to be unmeasurable by scientific instruments.

This applies also to the other sense organs (pasada rupa). The Atthasalini remarks that the very purpose of using the term pasada is to dismiss the popular misconception of what we think an eye or an ear is. (see karunadasa p45)The actual sensitive matter in the eye and ear is very refined. If someone dies then the ear-sense and eye sense (sota-pasada and cakkhu-pasada ) are immediately no longer produced (they are produced by kamma only) yet one would not notice much outward change looking at the eye and ear(at least for the first few minutes before decomposition sets in). The same applies to the heart – the blood in the heart would have the same volume after death and yet the hadaya-vatthu is no longer present.

I think you accept that consciousness arises soon after conception. The fetus at that stage is so tiny as to be invisible to all but the most trained eye (if even that large). yet consciousness is arising and passing away dependent on some matter(rupa) somewhere. There is certainly no brain yet but according to the commentaries the heart basis (hadaya-vattu ) ,that extremely subtle rupa, is already present – conditioned by kamma. This shows how extraordinarily subtle this type of rupa is. I think one can see how heart transplants etc. make no difference to the arising and passing of this subtle conditioned rupa.

What does the brain do then? It does something, it is like wiring center needed for functioning of the body mind – Sure if you pull out a few wires , just as with a computer, things aren’t going to work so well. No doubt someone ignorant of the chip in a computer could play around with the mass of wirings and see how the computer stopped working or had some misfunction- they might think, wow so that is 'brain' of the computer . Not knowing that the tiny chip is really where the processing is done.



robert

[rhinoceroshorn]

Thanks for this text!

[bodhifollower]

Simple, because the mind is still attached to that body, when the heart is removed, the heart base still remains in the mind made body, the astral body is modern terms, once the new heart is put in, the heart base then forms a connection to the said new heart.

[Dhamma Chameleon]

There are also accounts of the donor heart recipient experiencing changes, for instance in personality and tastes. Amd there are stories of intense connections between the recipient and the donor's loved ones. So a little of the donor's heart base remnants may well be transplanted too, sometimes.

"CHANGES IN HEART TRANSPLANT RECIPIENTS THAT PARALLEL THE PERSONALITIES OFTHEIR DONORS"

Parallels included changes in food, music, art, sexual, recreational, and career preferences, as well as specific instances of perceptions of names and sensory experiences related to the donors (e.g., one donor was killed by a gun shot to the face; the recipient had dreams of seeing hot flashes of light in his face)

Donor 1: “Danny, My Heart is Yours.”
Recipient 1: “I Could Finish Phrases of His Songs.”

Donor 2: “Jerry’s Baby Talk”
Recipient 2: “Carter Said the Same Baby-Talk Words”

etc

[Spiny Norman]

The Visuddhimagga (viii, 111)says about hadaya-vatthu [heart base]: they describe the heart and then note that inside the heart “there is a hollow the size of a punnaga seeds bed where half a pastata measure of blood is kept, with which as their support the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur.”

This description is very reminiscent of Atman residing in the "cave of the heart" in the Upanishads. Any connection?

[Coëmgenu]

The Visuddhimagga (viii, 111)says about hadaya-vatthu [heart base]: they describe the heart and then note that inside the heart “there is a hollow the size of a punnaga seeds bed where half a pastata measure of blood is kept, with which as their support the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur.”

This description is very reminiscent of Atman residing in the "cave of the heart" in the Upanishads. Any connection?

"He who knows Brahman which is Reality, Knowledge, and Infinity hidden in the cave of the heart and in the highest akasa — he, being one with the omniscient Brahman, enjoys simultaneously all desires."

Do you know a section that deals with a supposed tiny section of the physical organ? This seems similar to the "cave of the heart/nous" in Christian monasticism, further related to the metaphysical "cave of treasures" in Christian and Near Eastern mysticism.

The Hindu version seems to use "heart" in a symbolic way. The Buddhist version is talking about a physical organ, and in that way it more resembles the "sacred heart of Jesus," which is an actual heart organ, than "the cave" where the soul descends into the mansions of the heart (in Christian meditations).

[Spiny Norman]

The Visuddhimagga (viii, 111)says about hadaya-vatthu [heart base]: they describe the heart and then note that inside the heart “there is a hollow the size of a punnaga seeds bed where half a pastata measure of blood is kept, with which as their support the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur.”

This description is very reminiscent of Atman residing in the "cave of the heart" in the Upanishads. Any connection?

"He who knows Brahman which is Reality, Knowledge, and Infinity hidden in the cave of the heart and in the highest akasa — he, being one with the omniscient Brahman, enjoys simultaneously all desires."

Do you know a section that deals with a supposed tiny section of the physical organ? This seems similar to the "cave of the heart/nous" in Christian monasticism, further related to the metaphysical "cave of treasures" in Christian and Near Eastern mysticism.

The Hindu version seems to use "heart" in a symbolic way. The Buddhist version is talking about a physical organ, and in that way it more resembles the "sacred heart of Jesus," which is an actual heart organ, than "the cave" where the soul descends into the mansions of the heart (in Christian meditations).

It seems to be meant literally in the Upanishads.
I was curious as to whether there's a pre-Buddhist basis for the Visuddhimagga analysis above, ie the heart as the support for mind consciousness.

[Ontheway]

OP

[bksubhuti]

Meditation Yogis who are very refined in their practice and confirm the heartbase is where the mind takes place. The first stage of confirming Jhana concentration is to break the concentration and review the jhana factors inside the heartbase. The yogi sees where the nimitta is reflected in the mind "like a mirror". Although there is a "suggestion" to look there, most yogis experience similar things. This technique is used to go from one jhana to the next quite quickly. Usually all 4 jhanas can be attained within two or three weeks from the first attainment using the vsm method. Rarely does it take months or years as one might guess. Because of this, we can assume the teaching in the vsm is correct.

Furthermore, as they progress to rupa (materiality) meditation, they can see the kalapas in the heartbase which are specific as a cause for mind to occur. In the same way they can see that the mind does occur in the mind, systematically as explained in the Manual of Abhidhamma (Abhidhammattha-sangaha). Furthermore, just for added effect. The standard number of rupa in the heartbase is 54. However, one lay yogi (and I know him) mentioned that he could see and extra 9 unprompted by his teacher in Sri Lanka. This is also correct because of navakalapa present in the fire element and now the standard Pa-Auk teaching with 63 rupa in the heartbase.
This can confirm the heartbase in Buddhist Teachings as something that is experienced by refined meditators with some unprompted findings.

[Ontheway]

Maryland doctors transplant pig’s heart into human patient in medical first
Patient is doing well three days after the highly experimental surgery, doctors say, though it’s too soon to know if it is a success...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ical-first

[asahi]

The heart base thing does exists but the true meaning of its existence is another matter .

[Ontheway]

The matter of the heart is a matter that lies on the blood of the heart. It is perceived as the seat of mind apart from the five-viññāṇa minds. The matter of the heart is described in Pāḷi “hadaya vatthu”, meaning the heart that is the base of the mind. In another way, “hadaya” means mind and “vatthu” means seat.

Therefore, “hadaya vatthu” is the seat of mind.

- Fundamental Abhidhamma, by Venerable Sayādaw Dr Nandamālābhivamsa