The raft simile

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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befriend
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The raft simile

Post by befriend »

In the simile of the raft sutta it says at the end to let go of wholesome states let alone bad states of mind I never understood this. Does this mean an Arahant no longer cultivates good states of mind?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Sam Vara
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Re: The raft simile

Post by Sam Vara »

befriend wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:19 pm In the simile of the raft sutta it says at the end to let go of wholesome states let alone bad states of mind I never understood this. Does this mean an Arahant no longer cultivates good states of mind?
Could you say where you think it says that? If you mean at the end of the section of the raft simile in MN 22, it talks about one who has understood the teachings will give up dhammas. Some might translate that as giving up good or wholesome states of mind, but Sujato and Bhikkhu Bodhi, for example, says that they will give up the teachings. It might be that the arahant has no need of teachings any more - s/he can simply cultivate wholesome states of mind without instruction. Thanissaro renders it as "letting go of dhammas, to say nothing of non-dhammas".

Horner comes closest to what you say, as her version is
You, monks, by understanding the Parable of the Raft, should get rid even of (right) mental objects, all the more of wrong ones.
If this is the bit you mean, it's not cut and dried as to the meaning.
coconut
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Re: The raft simile

Post by coconut »

befriend wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:19 pm In the simile of the raft sutta it says at the end to let go of wholesome states let alone bad states of mind I never understood this. Does this mean an Arahant no longer cultivates good states of mind?
Wholesome states are also stressful, because all activity is stressful. Arahants cultivate good states of mind until paranibbana because they still have to deal with a human body that's aging and dying and requires feeding and maintenance, this is called "with residue". What happens after Parinibbana is irrelevant, as the Buddha does not give a specific answer because there is no verbal answer.
“Bhikkhus, there are these two Nibbāna-elements. What are the two? The Nibbāna-element with residue left and the Nibbāna-element with no residue left.

“What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbāna-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbāna-element with residue left.

“Now what, bhikkhus, is the Nibbāna-element with no residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant … completely released through final knowledge. For him, here in this very life, all that is experienced, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbāna-element with no residue left.
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Re: The raft simile

Post by pegembara »

befriend wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:19 pm In the simile of the raft sutta it says at the end to let go of wholesome states let alone bad states of mind I never understood this. Does this mean an Arahant no longer cultivates good states of mind?
To me, it means letting go of the Noble 8FP which is no longer required. A liberated person still needs to live in this "world" and
the way he/she does this is by living as if he/she is in "heaven on earth" (divine abodes). It isn't so much a need to cultivate but rather their natural state of mind.

The 4 Brahmaviharas being - metta, karuna, mudita and upekkha.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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DooDoot
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Re: The raft simile

Post by DooDoot »

befriend wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:19 pm In the simile of the raft sutta it says at the end to let go of wholesome states let alone bad states of mind I never understood this. Does this mean an Arahant no longer cultivates good states of mind?
The sutta says:
Similarly, O monks, there are here some foolish men who study the Teaching; having studied it, they do not wisely examine the purpose of those teachings. To those who do not wisely examine the purpose, these teachings will not yield insight. They study the Teaching only to use it for criticizing or for refuting others in disputation. They do not experience the (true) purpose for which they (ought to) study the Teaching. To them these teachings wrongly grasped, will bring harm and suffering for a long time. And why? Because of their wrong grasp of the teachings.

In the same way, monks, have I shown to you the Teaching's similitude to a raft: as having the purpose of crossing over, not the purpose of being clung to.
It appears to mean the good dhammas are not to be clung to; particularly for the purpose of having arguments.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: The raft simile

Post by SteRo »

befriend wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:19 pm In the simile of the raft sutta it says at the end to let go of wholesome states let alone bad states of mind I never understood this.
I never came across such a meaning of this simile.
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befriend
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Re: The raft simile

Post by befriend »

I read the end notes on access to insight and I misinterpreted the meaning.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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