But here the focus was on the aspect restlessness. Therefore the topic has been restlessness from the outset. You can't say that restlessness isn't a hindrance because a it appears together with remorse.
Hindrances and Fetters
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
No. The hindrance is called restlessness & remorse. The topic is called hindrances & fetters. it is best to post with integrity & discipline. Venerable Dhammanando has said:
Dhammanando wrote:I suppose that it would be, since the hindrance is always given as uddhacca-kukkucca, rather than just uddhacca.
The commentaries always treat it as a copulative compound (i.e., uddhaccañca kukkuccañca) and the evidence for its being so comes as early as the Dhammasaṅgaṇī, Vibhaṅga and the Peṭakopadesa. To quote from the last-named:
Piya Tan has written a good overview of the hindrances based on both early and later texts.Tattha katamaṃ uddhaccaṃ? Yo avūpasamo cittassa, idaṃ uddhaccaṃ. Tattha katamaṃ kukkuccaṃ? Yo cetaso vilekho alañcanā vilañcanā hadayalekho vippaṭisāro, idaṃ kukkuccaṃ. Iti idañca kukkuccaṃ purimakañca uddhaccaṃ tadubhayaṃ uddhaccakukkuccanīvaraṇanti vuccati.
“Herein, what is agitation? Any disquiet of mind is agitation. Herein, what is worry? Any rasping of mind, guilt, guiltiness, rasping-in-the-heart, remorse, this is worry. This worry and the agitation mentioned above are together called the hindrance of agitation-and-worry.”
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/do ... ces/5847/6Five Hindrances
According to the Abhidhamma the hindrance of restlessness in a worldling, stream-entrant, or once-returner and the fetter of restlessness in a non-returner are one and the same mental factor. What distinguishes them is:
The fetter of restlessness in a non-returner would never arise in an aversion-motivated consciousness (dosamūla citta). And …
Unlike the hindrance of restlessness it would never be accompanied by worry/remorse (kukkucca).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
If you think that means that restlessness isn't a hindrance then
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
Correct. The hindrance is called "restlessness & remorse".
If this description is not conclusive then it requires further investigation of the texts. Since the learned Venerable Dhammanando only cited commentary material, i imagine the suttas may not be totally clear about the meaning.
In short, on face value, the hindrance is called restlessness & remorse rather than restlessness.
I imagine it means "agitation & remorse". "Agitation" is a better word connected to "remorse".
If the restlessness was not related to the remorse then i imagine there would be six hindrances instead of five.
To conclude, it is you rather myself that is required to substantiate your point of view because it is you that is arguing against the literal description of the suttas and commentaries.
I am going to the beach now. I generally only post when i am working. I have better things to do .
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
Thank you for the thoughts regarding sloth/torpor.
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
It appear restlessness meaning is being agitated mind , not able to calm down the mind therefore one is unable to attain jhana . Now , i wonder if have other explanations ? If a non returner is unable to calm his/her mind would s/he cut-off the prior 3 fetters and abandoned the kama loka fetters and weakened rupa loka fetters ?JohnK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:58 pm I just noticed that 4 of the 5 hindrances appear to have correlates in the fetters -- doubt (among the first three fetters), sense desire and ill-will (among the remaining two of the lower 5 fetters), and restlessness (among the higher 5 fetters). Just wondering about sloth/torpor -- not a fetter? Perhaps sloth/torpor derives from one of the previous fetters and so is taken care of? Thoughts?
No bashing No gossiping
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
Hindrances are short term and immediate, fetters are long-term patterns of behavior.
The comments higher on this thread are from wise posters
The comments higher on this thread are from wise posters
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
restlessness is agitation but what is the object of agitation? maybe for non returner when he is not in jhana he might crave to experience jhana soon and dont want to spend more time in 5 sense world apart from eating, dhamma talk, walking etc...
restlessness for puthujana is what will happen to me tomorrow? what donut can I buy next month? what if I die now? oops. why is this xx website blocked in my country? etc etc etc
restlessness for puthujana is what will happen to me tomorrow? what donut can I buy next month? what if I die now? oops. why is this xx website blocked in my country? etc etc etc
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
-
- Posts: 1806
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:20 am
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
Restless remorse?
Whoever is correct, I see that this thread has covered all the hindrances apart from sloth & torpor... time for bed.
Whoever is correct, I see that this thread has covered all the hindrances apart from sloth & torpor... time for bed.
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Hindrances and Fetters
sloth and torpor can be avoided by inducing rapture (metta or sympathetic joy or reflecting on own vituries. virtues of sangha etc)BrokenBones wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:36 am Restless remorse?
Whoever is correct, I see that this thread has covered all the hindrances apart from sloth & torpor... time for bed.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...