Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
I was wondering where emotions fit into the sequence of Paticca-Samuppada/dependent origination. Has this been discussed before? I would naively expect that emotions are a form of mental fabrication, and perhaps arise after contact and feeling.
Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
The way I understand feeling (Vedana) is the emotions.
Passa paccaya vedana (As a result of contact feeling arises).
Passa paccaya vedana (As a result of contact feeling arises).
Last edited by SarathW on Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Emotions are feelings arising dependent on contact with mental objects, for example happy or sad feelings arise dependent on recollecting happy or sad events. See the Mahāsi Sayādaw's discourse on the Mālukyaputta Sutta
Failure to Meditate on Mind Objects While Knowing
Meditating on Mind Objects Brings Nibbāna Near
The preceding stanzas show the darker side of life for the meditator. There is a brighter side, though, which is given in the following stanza.
Failure to Meditate on Mind Objects While Knowing
“A multitude of passions such as covetousness and vexation, springing from ideas, torments one who takes a firm hold of it, with the result that his mind surely becomes impaired. Therefore, nibbāna remains remote from one who would rather carry the burden of suffering than practise meditation.”“Tassa vaḍḍhanti vedanā, anekā dhammasambhavā;
Abhijjhā ca vihesā ca, cittamassūpahaññati.
Evamācinato dukkhaṃ, ārā nibbāna vuccati.”
Meditating on Mind Objects Brings Nibbāna Near
The preceding stanzas show the darker side of life for the meditator. There is a brighter side, though, which is given in the following stanza.
“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the idea he has known. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”“Na so rajjati dhammesu, dhammaṃ ñatvā patissato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nājjhossa tiṭṭhati.”
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
OK, thank you both. So I understood this to mean that when one speaks of feelings, emotions are part of that.
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
so awareness of arising of thoughts of bad or good is near to nibbana?Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:29 am Emotions are feelings arising dependent on contact with mental objects, for example happy or sad feelings arise dependent on recollecting happy or sad events. See the Mahāsi Sayādaw's discourse on the Mālukyaputta Sutta
Failure to Meditate on Mind Objects While Knowing
“A multitude of passions such as covetousness and vexation, springing from ideas, torments one who takes a firm hold of it, with the result that his mind surely becomes impaired. Therefore, nibbāna remains remote from one who would rather carry the burden of suffering than practise meditation.”“Tassa vaḍḍhanti vedanā, anekā dhammasambhavā;
Abhijjhā ca vihesā ca, cittamassūpahaññati.
Evamācinato dukkhaṃ, ārā nibbāna vuccati.”
Meditating on Mind Objects Brings Nibbāna Near
The preceding stanzas show the darker side of life for the meditator. There is a brighter side, though, which is given in the following stanza.
“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the idea he has known. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”“Na so rajjati dhammesu, dhammaṃ ñatvā patissato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nājjhossa tiṭṭhati.”
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Only if awareness is constant, sustained, and uninterrupted.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:56 amSo awareness of arising of thoughts of bad or good is near to nibbana?
In brief, whatever thoughts arise during meditation should be known as they really are. Mindfulness should be maintained to avoid getting carried away by thoughts, whether positive or negative. Joyful, happy, and serene states of mind will develop if the meditator continues to practice diligently. Nevertheless, if progress seems slow, the meditator becomes pessimistic or depressed and is reluctant to continue. If both positive and negative thoughts are noted whenever they occur, the mind will remain equanimous and progress will be steady.Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta wrote:“Again, monks, how does a monk dwell contemplating thoughts in thoughts? Here, monks, when a thought with lust is present he knows, ‘A lustful thought is present.’ When a thought free from lust is present he knows, ‘A thought free from lust is present.’ When a thought with anger is present he knows, ‘A thought with anger is present.’ When a thought free from anger is present he knows, ‘A thought free from anger is present.’ When a deluded thought is present he knows, ‘A deluded thought is present.’ When an undeluded thought is present he knows, ‘An undeluded thought is present.’ When a lazy (contracted) mind is present he knows, ‘A lazy mind is present.’ When a distracted (restless) mind is present he knows, ‘A distracted mind is present.’ When a lofty mind is present he knows, ‘A lofty mind is present.’ When a non-lofty mind is present he knows, ‘A non-lofty mind is present.’ When an inferior mind is present he knows, ‘An inferior mind is present.’ When a superior mind is present he knows, ‘A superior mind is present.’ When a composed mind is present he knows, ‘A composed mind is present.’ When an uncomposed mind is present he knows, ‘An uncomposed mind is present.’ When a liberated mind is present he knows, ‘A liberated mind is present.’ When an unliberated mind is present he knows, ‘An unliberated mind is present.’
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Thanks bhanteBhikkhu Pesala wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:54 pmOnly if awareness is constant, sustained, and uninterrupted.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:56 amSo awareness of arising of thoughts of bad or good is near to nibbana?
In brief, whatever thoughts arise during meditation should be known as they really are. Mindfulness should be maintained to avoid getting carried away by thoughts, whether positive or negative. Joyful, happy, and serene states of mind will develop if the meditator continues to practice diligently. Nevertheless, if progress seems slow, the meditator becomes pessimistic or depressed and is reluctant to continue. If both positive and negative thoughts are noted whenever they occur, the mind will remain equanimous and progress will be steady.Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta wrote:“Again, monks, how does a monk dwell contemplating thoughts in thoughts? Here, monks, when a thought with lust is present he knows, ‘A lustful thought is present.’ When a thought free from lust is present he knows, ‘A thought free from lust is present.’ When a thought with anger is present he knows, ‘A thought with anger is present.’ When a thought free from anger is present he knows, ‘A thought free from anger is present.’ When a deluded thought is present he knows, ‘A deluded thought is present.’ When an undeluded thought is present he knows, ‘An undeluded thought is present.’ When a lazy (contracted) mind is present he knows, ‘A lazy mind is present.’ When a distracted (restless) mind is present he knows, ‘A distracted mind is present.’ When a lofty mind is present he knows, ‘A lofty mind is present.’ When a non-lofty mind is present he knows, ‘A non-lofty mind is present.’ When an inferior mind is present he knows, ‘An inferior mind is present.’ When a superior mind is present he knows, ‘A superior mind is present.’ When a composed mind is present he knows, ‘A composed mind is present.’ When an uncomposed mind is present he knows, ‘An uncomposed mind is present.’ When a liberated mind is present he knows, ‘A liberated mind is present.’ When an unliberated mind is present he knows, ‘An unliberated mind is present.’
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Interesting.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:29 am Emotions are feelings arising dependent on contact with mental objects...
Rather than emotions being a form of feeling/vedana, it seems that emotions can be a reaction to vedana.
That is, many emotions seem to be shadings of the craving (or aversion) which can follow from vedana.
Is this also a reasonable way to see it? Thank you.
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.htmlFrom birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.
See? "sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair" and "entire mass of stress & suffering" this is what the world would understand as "emotions" ... it's ridicuous but actually "emotions" is a non-dhammic term
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
I also think that emotion comes after feeling(pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral).A reaction to or movement in response to a feeling. Without the reaction, feelings will remain as feelings. The arahant will have no emotions.JohnK wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:02 pmInteresting.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:29 am Emotions are feelings arising dependent on contact with mental objects...
Rather than emotions being a form of feeling/vedana, it seems that emotions can be a reaction to vedana.
That is, many emotions seem to be shadings of the craving (or aversion) which can follow from vedana.
Is this also a reasonable way to see it? Thank you.
a conscious mental reaction (such as anger or fear) subjectively experienced as strong feeling usually directed toward a specific object and typically accompanied by physiological and behavioral changes in the body
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emotion
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
There are wholesome emotions and unwholesome emotions.
I would recommend reading MN 19, MN 9 and especially MN 61.
Emotions can be classed as mental actions. I'll put the relevant quote from the sutta here:
"Whenever you want to do a mental action, you should reflect on it: 'This mental action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful mental action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful mental action with painful consequences, painful results, then any mental action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful mental action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any mental action of that sort is fit for you to do." MN 61
Right resolve, right speech, right livelihood and right effort have everything to do with emotions as well. We are trying to develop the mind so it does not hurt yourself or others. Key words: good-will, generosity, compassion, kindness. All of these are wholesome and to be developed.
Brahmaviharas: lovingkindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity are all very wholesome and lead to non-affliction.
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?pitithefool wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:50 pm There are wholesome emotions and unwholesome emotions. I would recommend reading MN 19, MN 9 and especially MN 61.
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
Paticca-samuppada, my old friend
Emotions are sankhara. They can be rooted in ignorance or they can be rooted in knowledge.
Trying to fit this in the framework of DO, Sankhara rooted in ignorance are akusala and will result in suffering. Skillful sankhara will form the path and lead to the destruction of suffering. Our emotions, being sankhara, should thus be grouped into skillful and unskillful.
When ignorance is completely gone, the need to create sankhara at all, including for the path itself, will subside and the whole chain of DO unravels from its root.
Positive emotions like goodwill are part of the path because they lead us away from suffering. More refined emotions take us beyonf the need for emotion. Good will is wholesome. Inspiration is wholesome. More wholesome still is dispassion toward form, feeling, perception, sankhara and consciousness. When one fabricates such a fabrication, one goes beyond the entire process of fabrication.
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Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
I think Vedana is the result (say reaction) to contact (passa)JohnK wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:02 pmInteresting.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:29 am Emotions are feelings arising dependent on contact with mental objects...
Rather than emotions being a form of feeling/vedana, it seems that emotions can be a reaction to vedana.
That is, many emotions seem to be shadings of the craving (or aversion) which can follow from vedana.
Is this also a reasonable way to see it? Thank you.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Where do emotions fit into Paticca-Samuppada?
If emotions were "sankhara", why were 12 conditions taught instead of merely 2 conditions? Surely, emotions are already dukkha.
Btw, how do the Pali suttas define "sankhara"? What is the Pali here? Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati