What is the view of Ledi Sayadaw on "What is reborn"?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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Eko Care
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What is the view of Ledi Sayadaw on "What is reborn"?

Post by Eko Care »

Had Ledi Sayadaw ever said something unorthodox in this regard?
I heard one of the Abhidhamma teachers said that Ledi Sayadaw introduced or explained a concept called "Paramattha Jatika Dhamma" related to energies such as "kamma/anusaya ..etc." which is not considered anicca or something like that.
And I heard same explanation goes regarding rebirth as well.
Is this a misunderstanding?

Does it have something related to following views/notions of self (2.a.) and (2.b.)
https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php/Pudgalavada
Notions of self
....
2.a. There is no self but there is a frequency transfer of kammic energies (some interpretations)
2.b. What is reborn? Neuroses (Chogyam Trungpa) Similar and alternate terms for what is reborn: psychological tendencies, karma, cravings
2.c. There is no permanent self, but there is a mind stream which is individual and continues (some interpretations)
2.d. There is no permanent self, but there is an indeterminate, inexpressible self (pudgalavada)
2.e. There is no self but there is a Ālāya-vijñāna (store-house consciousness) accounting for kamma and rebirth (Mahayana-Yogachara)
2.f. There is no permanent self but there is citta (mind) which never dies (some Forest traditions and other modern interpretations in Theravada and Mahayana)
2.g. An individual entity, but merges with universal consciousness with nirvana (Advaita, Hinduism, and other pantheistic traditions)
...
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Re: What is the view of Ledi Sayadaw on "What is reborn"?

Post by confusedlayman »

Eko Care wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:26 pm Had Ledi Sayadaw ever said something unorthodox in this regard?
I heard one of the Abhidhamma teachers said that Ledi Sayadaw introduced or explained a concept called "Paramattha Jatika Dhamma" related to energies such as "kamma/anusaya ..etc." which is not considered anicca or something like that.
And I heard same explanation goes regarding rebirth as well.
Is this a misunderstanding?

Does it have something related to following views/notions of self (2.a.) and (2.b.)
https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php/Pudgalavada
Notions of self
....
2.a. There is no self but there is a frequency transfer of kammic energies (some interpretations)
2.b. What is reborn? Neuroses (Chogyam Trungpa) Similar and alternate terms for what is reborn: psychological tendencies, karma, cravings
2.c. There is no permanent self, but there is a mind stream which is individual and continues (some interpretations)
2.d. There is no permanent self, but there is an indeterminate, inexpressible self (pudgalavada)
2.e. There is no self but there is a Ālāya-vijñāna (store-house consciousness) accounting for kamma and rebirth (Mahayana-Yogachara)
2.f. There is no permanent self but there is citta (mind) which never dies (some Forest traditions and other modern interpretations in Theravada and Mahayana)
2.g. An individual entity, but merges with universal consciousness with nirvana (Advaita, Hinduism, and other pantheistic traditions)
...
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Re: What is the view of Ledi Sayadaw on "What is reborn"?

Post by cappuccino »

Eko Care wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:26 pm There is no self but
No-self or Not-self?
One of the first stumbling blocks that Westerners often encounter when they learn about Buddhism is the teaching on anatta, often translated as no-self. This teaching is a stumbling block for two reasons.

First, the idea of there being no self doesn't fit well with other Buddhist teachings, such as the doctrine of kamma and rebirth: If there's no self, what experiences the results of kamma and takes rebirth?
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: What is the view of Ledi Sayadaw on "What is reborn"?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

What is Reborn
The Debate of King Milinda wrote:“What is it, Nāgasena, that is reborn?”
“Mind and matter.”

“Is it this very mind and matter that is reborn?”
“No, it is not, but by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.”

“Give me an illustration.”
“It is like a fire that a man might kindle and, having warmed himself, he might leave it burning and go away. Then if that fire were to set light to another man’s field and the owner were to seize him and accuse him before the king, and he were to say, ‘Your maj­esty, I did not set this man’s field on fire. The fire that I left burning was different to that which burnt his field. I am not guilty’. Would he deserve punishment?”

“Indeed, yes, because whatever he might say the latter fire resulted from the former one.”
“Just so, O king, by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.”
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Re: What is the view of Ledi Sayadaw on "What is reborn"?

Post by DooDoot »

Eko Care wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:26 pm
https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php/Pudgalavada
Notions of self
....
2.a. There is no self but there is a frequency transfer of kammic energies (some interpretations)
2.b. What is reborn? Neuroses (Chogyam Trungpa) Similar and alternate terms for what is reborn: psychological tendencies, karma, cravings
2.c. There is no permanent self, but there is a mind stream which is individual and continues (some interpretations)
2.d. There is no permanent self, but there is an indeterminate, inexpressible self (pudgalavada)
2.e. There is no self but there is a Ālāya-vijñāna (store-house consciousness) accounting for kamma and rebirth (Mahayana-Yogachara)
2.f. There is no permanent self but there is citta (mind) which never dies (some Forest traditions and other modern interpretations in Theravada and Mahayana)
2.g. An individual entity, but merges with universal consciousness with nirvana (Advaita, Hinduism, and other pantheistic traditions)
...
The suttas say a "person" or "being" is "reborn".
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