The Mind Base

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.
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Ceisiwr
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

The Mind Base

Post by Ceisiwr »

I’m trying to find a definition of the mind base. Could someone point me in the right direction?
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
asahi
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Re: The Mind Base

Post by asahi »

No suttas ever found defining it . But its make up appears to be of four primary elements
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Ceisiwr
Posts: 12740
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: The Mind Base

Post by Ceisiwr »

asahi wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 10:26 am No suttas ever found defining it . But its make up appears to be of four primary elements
I was thinking in terms of the commentaries and Abhidhamma?
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: The Mind Base

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

imo,

1) In suttas: MN 137
  • Mind-base (medium/domain/ or simply Mind ...depending upon translations) is mental; and is Mind-door
    • That I am able to agree.
2) In Abhidhamma
  • More synonymous with hadaya-vatthu of the commentaries ..... "That material thing based on which mind-element and mind-consciousness element function" is material/rupa (not synonymous with physical, imo; & not-described-as-localized) where mind-door functions.
    • That I am able to agree.
3) In Commentaries
  • Heart-base is material/rupa (localized & physical) where mind-door functions.
    • That I don't agree; but accept as a conventional reality of the time.

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  • Regarding Mind-door (mental one) in Abhidhamma, imo, there are cittas which function as Mind-base/Mind-door. I can't recall them, but I think you may know much more about them than I do.

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  • There is a sixth vatthu which is not one of the pasada-rupas. This is the hadaya-vatthu or heart-base. The hadaya-vatthu is a kind of rupa which is the place of origin for the cittas which are not among the panca-vinnanas (seeing, hearing, etc.) since these cittas have the pasada-rupa as their place of origin. The hadaya-vatthu is different from the mind-door. The mind-door is a citta, the bhavangupaccheda-citta, which is the last bhavanga-citta arising before the mano-dvaravajjana-citta (mind-door-adverting-consciousness). The hadaya-vatthu is rupa, not nama.
    https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book ... c2722.html

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from Mogok Sayadaw's Teachings [summarized]:
(These teachings, imo, are directed towards non-scholar meditators, as a guided meditations. One of my favorite instructions is : "With ear, listen to the Dhamma; [at the same time] with wisdom, browse through the body (Khanda)."
  • Mind base (manāyatana) exists in the heart base (hadayavatthu).

    [The Buddha used mind base as vatthu. Hadayavatthu was used by Ven. Buddhagosa. It only used as vatthu in the Abhidhamma Paṭṭhāna. Hadaya sometimes used as heart, sometimes referred to as mind.

    The mind base is in the blood of the heart (neither the heart nor the blood). The Buddha not mentioned a specific place for it. One teacher had suggested two possibilities; the heart area and the brain. We feel it at the heart if we have emotions. We are scratching the head if we think something]

    There are three causes for mind consciousness arise; mind base, the mirror of mano dvara turning towards mental objects and then thoughts can arise. Thoughts can arise by three causes: mental object (dhammarammana) + mind base + attention.

    If you turn the mind base towards the past, present and future mental objects and thoughts arise. If you are turning it towards the objects in the safe even can’t see it and still will appear to you. Therefore mind consciousness is the sharpest one.

    If you turn the mind base towards gladden things and the gladden mind arises. If you are turning it towards unpleasant things and the unpleasant mind arises. If you are turning it towards the Buddha and the thought on the Buddha arises.

    Why you all are happy and suffered? Because you all are turning the clear mirror of the mind towards the wrong directions. If you are turning towards impermanence and seeing impermanence arises. Turing your mind towards wife and children, sorrow, lamentation follow behind thoughts.

    You don’t turn it towards good directions; mostly turning towards the bad directions. The shadows appear in the mirror are like thoughts. You are like a psychotic person who gets a mirror. After getting a mirror, turn it towards everywhere.

    And then look into the mirror and smile (laughing), frown, and (crying). Does it appear by itself? Or turning towards wrong direction? If you are turning toward dukkha sacca and knowing dukkha sacca arises.

    ...
    https://nanda.online-dhamma.net/a-path- ... tful-mind/



:heart:
.


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Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22
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