What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
user99
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What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by user99 »

"Maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice."
Bundokji
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Bundokji »

user99 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:57 am "Maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice."
Where did you get the quoted sentence from? if you can share the source, that might help in figuring out what does it mean.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
user99
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by user99 »

Here somewhere on this forum. i dont know where. Maybe 4-5 months ago i believe i saw it.
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Bundokji »

user99 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:48 pm Here somewhere on this forum. i dont know where. Maybe 4-5 months ago i believe i saw it.
Without context it has little meaning.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
user99
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by user99 »

The text is about how to reach streamenterer.
Bundokji
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Bundokji »

user99 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:05 pm The text is about how to reach streamenterer.
I believe you. but the sentence itself might be quoted out of context which if presented in its original and full form, it might convey different meaning.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
user99
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by user99 »

"Generate samadhi which is the gateway to wisdom, the actual ability to understand anicca, dukkha, anatta.
The fruit that should be generated on the path is attainment of the jhanas.
We know we are in the jhanas when there is complete absolute non-arising of the hindrances.
The way to get there is to maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object. Which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice. Keeping track of whats being accomplished or not would be a distraction from that object.

That was the whole text.
Bundokji
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Bundokji »

user99 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm "Generate samadhi which is the gateway to wisdom, the actual ability to understand anicca, dukkha, anatta.
The fruit that should be generated on the path is attainment of the jhanas.
We know we are in the jhanas when there is complete absolute non-arising of the hindrances.
The way to get there is to maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object. Which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice. Keeping track of whats being accomplished or not would be a distraction from that object.

That was the whole text.
Thank you for sharing the whole text. If i were to answer your question sincerely of what does this mean, i need to be sure. I am not sure what that means. Maybe other members can be more helpful.

Either way, it is an interesting paragraph. I might get back to it and contemplate its meaning. Thanks for sharing :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by cappuccino »

Dependent Arising

"if this exists, that exists; if this ceases to exist, that also ceases to exist"
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by asahi »

user99 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm "Generate samadhi which is the gateway to wisdom, the actual ability to understand anicca, dukkha, anatta.
The fruit that should be generated on the path is attainment of the jhanas.
We know we are in the jhanas when there is complete absolute non-arising of the hindrances.
The way to get there is to maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object. Which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice. Keeping track of whats being accomplished or not would be a distraction from that object.

That was the whole text.
My understanding is the samadhi alone cannot generate wisdom otherwise other ascetics equiped with deep jhana already enlightened . Samadhi is a necessary condition but not necessary to the extent it has to develop until the stage of arupa jhana .
Maintaning mindfulness on meditation object should not limited to certain mind object only but it has to build n develop to an extent it covers everyday chores when in contact with other peoples and environment include doing all sort of works .

:anjali:
No bashing No gossiping
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Alino »

user99 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm "Generate samadhi which is the gateway to wisdom, the actual ability to understand anicca, dukkha, anatta.
The fruit that should be generated on the path is attainment of the jhanas.
We know we are in the jhanas when there is complete absolute non-arising of the hindrances.
The way to get there is to maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object. Which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice. Keeping track of whats being accomplished or not would be a distraction from that object.

That was the whole text.
It means that one need to live à restraint life (8 precepts) for enought lenght of time in order to gain à composure of the mind. Its a necessary basis, you can't gain composure while blindly following all your mind's orders...
And while mind is composed (samadhi) practitioner can see that although all body-mind is changing and moving, there is something in the background that never changes, not born or die, that have no any fluctuation in it's qualities, pure, clear, bright... then he turns his attention to khandhas and sees as it's actualy is, that form, feeling, mémoires and perceptions, thoughts and emotions, sense consciousness are not me, not mine, not myself self, it have no owner and never had it...Than no body is born, nobody die, just these 5 khandhas... so he gains a certain freedom from things he always assumed to be what he was, he relinquish the ownership ower them... He penetrates and sees directly dukkha, its origin, cessation and the path.

PS no need to be in "Vism hard jhana", just need a composure of mind in daily life. Daily life practice is much more important here rather sitting sessions. Being mindfull to the body and mind, with clear comprehention.

There is no magic key that will make it easy. Just take 8 precepts and watch your body and mind. If you see that something is changing or conditioned - throw it away as conditioned phenomena, and continue to looking for something that not change, not originates, free... Find a place inside you where phenomenas don't reaching you, the other shore...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Ontheway »

Is Jhanic attainment necessary for Sotapanna?

I myself couldn't even sit for a full hour meditation. I just follow the instructions in Okkantisamyutta, Ratana Sutta, and Mahaparinibbana Sutta section on the Mirror of Dhamma as my study & guidance for Sotapanna-magga phala.

Still struggling and striving.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by confusedlayman »

Alino wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:38 am
user99 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm "Generate samadhi which is the gateway to wisdom, the actual ability to understand anicca, dukkha, anatta.
The fruit that should be generated on the path is attainment of the jhanas.
We know we are in the jhanas when there is complete absolute non-arising of the hindrances.
The way to get there is to maintain mindfulness of the meditation-object. Which is faciliteted by following the Buddhas teaching on how to live outside of practice. Keeping track of whats being accomplished or not would be a distraction from that object.

That was the whole text.
It means that one need to live à restraint life (8 precepts) for enought lenght of time in order to gain à composure of the mind. Its a necessary basis, you can't gain composure while blindly following all your mind's orders...
And while mind is composed (samadhi) practitioner can see that although all body-mind is changing and moving, there is something in the background that never changes, not born or die, that have no any fluctuation in it's qualities, pure, clear, bright... then he turns his attention to khandhas and sees as it's actualy is, that form, feeling, mémoires and perceptions, thoughts and emotions, sense consciousness are not me, not mine, not myself self, it have no owner and never had it...Than no body is born, nobody die, just these 5 khandhas... so he gains a certain freedom from things he always assumed to be what he was, he relinquish the ownership ower them... He penetrates and sees directly dukkha, its origin, cessation and the path.

PS no need to be in "Vism hard jhana", just need a composure of mind in daily life. Daily life practice is much more important here rather sitting sessions. Being mindfull to the body and mind, with clear comprehention.

There is no magic key that will make it easy. Just take 8 precepts and watch your body and mind. If you see that something is changing or conditioned - throw it away as conditioned phenomena, and continue to looking for something that not change, not originates, free... Find a place inside you where phenomenas don't reaching you, the other shore...
did u say something in background dont change?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by Alino »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:58 am did u say something in background dont change?
Yes, luminous, pure, calm, non-reactive, selfless, deep mind that provides refuge from changing phenomenas on the surface.
If we take refuge in it, we must be able to directly see and know phenomenas and khandhas as not me, not mine, not my self... and thus, being free from their influence and power.
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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confusedlayman
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Re: What is does this mean? (Help needed for reaching streamenterer.)

Post by confusedlayman »

Alino wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:16 am
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:58 am did u say something in background dont change?
Yes, luminous, pure, calm, non-reactive, selfless, deep mind that provides refuge from changing phenomenas on the surface.
If we take refuge in it, we must be able to directly see and know phenomenas and khandhas as not me, not mine, not my self... and thus, being free from their influence and power.
I think we shuld not take refuge in it as that also changes
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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