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This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 12:53 pm
by mjaviem
SN 22.87 wrote:‘Form is impermanent: I have no perplexity about this, venerable sir...


If only he could have a teacher, one who "dispels perplexity in many kinds of perplexing things"... :D

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 am
by DooDoot
insect appears unconcerned ... :meditate:

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 am
by pegembara
The problem is with the human "mind" or more accurately the activity of clinging.

Monkey story.
"Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted with this body composed of the four great elements, might grow dispassionate toward it, might gain release from it. Why is that? Because the growth & decline, the taking up & putting down of this body composed of the four great elements are apparent. Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted, might grow dispassionate, might gain release there.

"But as for what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness,' the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it. Why is that? For a long time this has been relished, appropriated, and grasped by the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person as, 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it.

"It would be better for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person to hold to the body composed of the four great elements, rather than the mind, as the self. Why is that? Because this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. Just as a monkey, swinging through a forest wilderness, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. In the same way, what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 1:40 pm
by mjaviem
DooDoot wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 am insect appears unconcerned ... :meditate:
It seems this insect can reach high levels of insect attainment while the monkey can't see pass conventional monkey reality or the danger in playing with sensual monkey objects...
pegembara wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 am The problem is with the human "mind" or more accurately the activity of clinging.

Monkey story.
...
Good monkey story :twothumbsup: . (Still I don't get the full meaning why it is worse to hold the mind as the self rather than the body but I guess that could be a different thread to not get off-monkey topic. :D)

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:28 am
by pegembara
Monkeys can be wiser than people.
It seems clinging to the present life is wiser than clinging to the after-life as alluded to in the sutta above.

Still on topic. :tongue:
“You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.”

― Yuval Noah Harari, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:40 pm
by cappuccino
pegembara wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:28 am Monkeys can be wiser than people.
monkeys lack teachings


such as the teaching of the afterlife

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:32 am
by pegembara
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:40 pm
pegembara wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:28 am Monkeys can be wiser than people.
monkeys lack teachings


such as the teaching of the afterlife
So the more you teach, the wiser you become?
Take your pick - the Talmud, Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Quantum Physics, or The Origin of Species.
Just trust the "experts" ... they know more than we do?

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:16 am
by cappuccino
pegembara wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:32 am Just trust the "experts" … they know more than we do?
:shrug:

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:30 am
by pegembara
cappuccino wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:16 am
pegembara wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:32 am Just trust the "experts" … they know more than we do?
:shrug:


svākkhāto bhagavatā dhammo
The dhamma of the blessed one is perfectly expounded,

sandiṭṭhiko akāliko
visible here and now, timeless,

ehipassiko opanāyiko
inviting all to come and see, onward leading to nibbana,

paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhi ti
understandable by the wise in their own minds.

Re: This monkey needs to stop clinging

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:04 pm
by cappuccino
pegembara wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:30 am The dhamma of the blessed one is perfectly expounded
K