Pudgala

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Ceisiwr
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Pudgala

Post by Ceisiwr »

In pāli "pudgala" means "person" but in Jainism it means "matter", which is one of the 6 eternal substances (Dravya) which make up the universe. Can anyone shed some light on this?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
arkaprava
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Re: Pudgala

Post by arkaprava »

Pudgala (पुद्गल, “matter”) according to the 2nd-century Tattvārthasūtra 5.5.—Things which have form (rūpī) constitute matter (pudgala). Why matter is called pudgala? Pud means combine and gala means to separate. The main attribute of matter is its ability to combine and separate (fusion and fission) to form clusters. Matter (pudgala) is with form (mūrtika or rūpī). How do we know it? Existence and activities of matter in the universe are perceptible by sense organs. Hence it is called with form or just concrete.

According to Tattvārthasūtra 5.10, what is matter (pudgala)? An entity which has fusion and fission (combining and separating) as its primary attributes and which is concrete is called matter. What are the popular attributes of matter? Touch, taste, smell and colour are the popular attributes of mater.

According to Tattvārthasūtra 5.23.—“The forms of matter (pudgala) are characterized by touch (sparśa), taste (rasa), smell (gandha) and colour (varṇa)”. What is the meaning of matter (pudgala) substance? An entity which has touch, taste, smell and form /colour as its attributes is called matter.

According to Tattvārthasūtra 5.25.—How many types of matter (pudgala) are there? They are of two types namely sub-atom (paramāṇu) and aggregate /molecule (skandha). What is the meaning of a sub-atom? The smallest indivisible part with one space point is its volume is called sub-atom. What is the meaning of aggregate /molecule (skandha)? An entity formed by combining two, three or more sub-atoms is called an aggregate.

What is the difference between a sub-atom (paramāṇu) and an aggregate/molecule (skandha)? They are both matter. Sub-atoms are characterized by touch, taste, smell and colour. Molecules on the other hand are characterized by modes of matter such as sound (śabda), union (bandha), fineness (sukṣmapanā), grossness (sthūlapanā), shape (saṃsthāna), divisions (bheda), darkness (andhakāra), shadow (chāyā), warm light (ātapa), cool light (udyota).
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pudgala

Post by Ceisiwr »

Wiki also has an interesting explanation, and sheds new light on what the Buddha meant when he spoke of a "person" (if true)
In Jainism, Pudgala (or Pudgalāstikāya) is one of the six Dravyas, or aspects of reality that fabricate the world we live in. The six dravyas include the jiva and the fivefold divisions of ajiva (non-living) category: dharma (motion), adharma (rest), akasha (space), pudgala (matter) and kala (time).[1] Pudgala, like other dravyas except kala is called astikaya in the sense that it occupies space.

Pudgala is derived from the words 'pud', which is defined as Supplement (Addition /Fusion), and gala, which is defined as Disintegrate, or Division or Fission. Therefore, Pudgalas are best defined as all things that are continuously changing by the process of Supplementation or Disintegration, namely matter.

The individual unit of Pudgala is the material from which all is made called a Paramanu, which, by the process of supplementation, can combine to form what can be roughly said is an aggregate, called a Skandha. It possesses at all times four qualities, namely, a color (varna), a taste (rasa), a smell (gandha), and a certain kind of palpability (sparsha, touch).[2]

In Buddhism, Pudgala means the entity that reincarnates as an individual or person, i.e., the bundle of tendencies that keeps an individual reincarnating until they attain enlightenment.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudgala
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pudgala

Post by Ceisiwr »

Also interesting to note that this

The individual unit of Pudgala is the material from which all is made called a Paramanu, which, by the process of supplementation, can combine to form what can be roughly said is an aggregate, called a Skandha. It possesses at all times four qualities, namely, a color (varna), a taste (rasa), a smell (gandha), and a certain kind of palpability (sparsha, touch).[2]

Pretty much matches the later Theravādin idea of rūpa-kalapas.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
sphairos
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Re: Pudgala

Post by sphairos »

This is the best paper on the subject I know

https://www.jstor.org/stable/596084?seq ... b_contents

As far as I remember, no one really understands where this word comes from. It has various unrelated meanings.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pudgala

Post by Ceisiwr »

sphairos wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:32 pm This is the best paper on the subject I know

https://www.jstor.org/stable/596084?seq ... b_contents

As far as I remember, no one really understands where this word comes from. It has various unrelated meanings.
Thanks.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
sphairos
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Re: Pudgala

Post by sphairos »

How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pudgala

Post by Ceisiwr »

sphairos wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:03 pm here is some more:

https://books.google.de/books?id=ENiK2q ... gy&f=false
:thumbsup:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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