Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
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mikenz66
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by mikenz66 »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:51 am It it same, we cant pronounce like this:
Vij--jā
Āyasmā Mahāmog--gal--lāno
Bhik--khu

Why? Coz, double consonant is HALF.
...
Well, that is in contradiction to the usual convention in Thailand, and elsewhere.
For example: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... l_toc_id_3
Buddho, for example is read as two long syllables: Bud-dho, sugato as two short, one long:
su-ga-to.

It may well be done differently in some places, but if you want to chant along with most SE Asian groups, you'd have to conform to their conventions.

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Mike
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

mikenz66 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:21 am
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:51 am It it same, we cant pronounce like this:
Vij--jā
Āyasmā Mahāmog--gal--lāno
Bhik--khu

Why? Coz, double consonant is HALF.
...
Well, that is in contradiction to the usual convention in Thailand, and elsewhere.
For example: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... l_toc_id_3
Buddho, for example is read as two long syllables: Bud-dho, sugato as two short, one long:
su-ga-to.

It may well be done differently in some places, but if you want to chant along with most SE Asian groups, you'd have to conform to their conventions.

:heart:
Mike
Yes 2 syllables, but
That is wrong, not Bud + dho

It is "Bu--ddho (Bu + d[n]dho)"

Sugato is right
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Ontheway »

I don't know what is the fuss over the pronunciation of Pali words, it reminds me of those Grammar Nxzis on YouTube comment section haha. :rofl:

But seriously Magadha Prakrit is considered as a dead language, no one can speak the language with native fluency anymore. I don't think it is fair to make rules on how to pronounce for such ancient language with our modern perspective.

So Gwi, you should relax and shouldn't have too much clinging on pronunciation.
:meditate:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Ontheway wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:43 am I don't know what is the fuss over the pronunciation of Pali words, it reminds me of those Grammar Nxzis on YouTube comment section haha. :rofl:

But seriously Magadha Prakrit is considered as a dead language, no one can speak the language with native fluency anymore. I don't think it is fair to make rules on how to pronounce for such ancient language with our modern perspective.

So Gwi, you should relax and shouldn't have too much clinging on pronunciation.
:meditate:


Parittā will not work (well)
If you guys read "Bud--dha, vij--jā, mag--ga"
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:48 am
Ontheway wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:43 am I don't know what is the fuss over the pronunciation of Pali words, it reminds me of those Grammar Nxzis on YouTube comment section haha. :rofl:

But seriously Magadha Prakrit is considered as a dead language, no one can speak the language with native fluency anymore. I don't think it is fair to make rules on how to pronounce for such ancient language with our modern perspective.

So Gwi, you should relax and shouldn't have too much clinging on pronunciation.
:meditate:


Parittā will not work (well)
If you guys read "Bud--dha, vij--jā, mag--ga"
Well, I think only some groups of Sri Lankan monks will chant with "n" sound, especially the young ones when they chant in melodious way. Those old elderly Theras from Sri Lanka in my country I've encountered so far, when they chant the scriptures, they don't really have this "n" sound.

Regarding the Paritta, how you know it will not work?

Besides, I don't think recitation of any Gathas or Parittas can be beneficial, if we don't practice Dana, Sila and Bhavana well. And The Master also said:"The Dhamma protects the one who lives by the Dhamma" :buddha1:

You can practice your way of pronunciation, but to say your way is the only correct version, that's a bit too far. :?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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mikenz66
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by mikenz66 »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:48 am Parittā will not work (well)
If you guys read "Bud--dha, vij--jā, mag--ga"
Well, that's the way most groups of monastic and lay people that I am familiar with pronounce it. I guess there is no hope for any of us... :tongue:

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Mike
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by sphairos »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:48 am
Ontheway wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:43 am I don't know what is the fuss over the pronunciation of Pali words, it reminds me of those Grammar Nxzis on YouTube comment section haha. :rofl:

But seriously Magadha Prakrit is considered as a dead language, no one can speak the language with native fluency anymore. I don't think it is fair to make rules on how to pronounce for such ancient language with our modern perspective.

So Gwi, you should relax and shouldn't have too much clinging on pronunciation.
:meditate:
Parittā will not work (well)
If you guys read "Bud--dha, vij--jā, mag--ga"
Someone told you that (a bhikkhu or a teacher), and you took it for the face value, but it is just a superstition.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
annada
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by annada »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:37 am Yes 2 syllables, but
That is wrong, not Bud + dho

It is "Bu--ddho (Bu + d[n]dho)"

Sugato is right
The correct way, as I learned (based on the Sri Lanka pronunciation):
"Bud - dho".
I think you cannot pronounce a double consonant like "ddh" without a vowel before it. Just try it, I think it is not possible at all.

How Sugato explained it?
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Gwi
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Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

cfekete wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:46 pm
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:37 am Yes 2 syllables, but
That is wrong, not Bud + dho

It is "Bu--ddho (Bu + d[n]dho)"

Sugato is right
The correct way, as I learned (based on the Sri Lanka pronunciation):
"Bud - dho".
I think you cannot pronounce a double consonant like "ddh" without a vowel before it. Just try it, I think it is not possible at all.

How Sugato explained it?
1. Dd = half = 0,5 (like flat scale)
2. "Double d" u must put "n" (ded sound)



How u pronounce: lagging?? Lag--ging?

If u guys read Bud-d ... this is same
Like u guys read lag--ging.
Last edited by Gwi on Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Location: Indonesia

Re: Pāḷi Pronunciation (Tips)

Post by Gwi »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 pm
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:36 am
Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:09 am

Niggāhitå is (pure) nose sound. "Ng" not pure.

We can practice it to know which is the pure.
Thats why a pig say: oink, oink (nose sound).

If we say: Bud-d, how to put "n" (ded sound)??
What's the ded sound?

From my teacher, for double consonants, even for aspirated, either there's a pause, or just stay longer at the sound, if it can be pulled longer. Eg. for tt, dd, kk, one cannot pull the sound longer, but for mm, nn, ss it's possible to pull it longer.

There's no mention of any sound in between. Any citation for that? Is this from your personal observation listening to chantings somewhere (where?).


Skip to this time:
3:17 ---> hear she spell: "Bu-d[n]dhe"

And u will hear "suvatthi" like "suvat[n]thi".

U will hear, she punch "Dh" for idampi Dhamme ...
Idampi Bu-ddhe ---> punch "dh".




4:34 ----> she spell ... ānantarikaňňa ...
She dunt spell ñ like spanish "ñ".


That "ballad" by Priya Barua.
Dunt make Suttå into song, but we
Can make BALLAD (kidung) from gāthā (Suttå).
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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